Sentences for people convicted of having or making images of child sexual abuse.

[AIMD]

I’m not someone that generally has too much of an issue with the types of sentences that the courts hand out but......why are sentences for having/making/distributing images of child sexual abuse so measly? I really don’t understand it?!

Is it unreasonable to think that anyone who has obtained, made or shared those types of images should face a custodial sentence and not ever just have a community sentence. Surely there should be more significant minimum sentence for those sorts of crimes to ensure that children are protected and there is More time to assess the offenders safety in the community?

Having/sharing/making images is abuse of children. The measly sent aces don’t reflect this though?!

@rwoollsey

Yup- resort to insults because really there’s no argument to be had to dispute simple
biological facts.

XX and XY chromosomes are biological fact.

Penises and vaginas are biological fact.

If you want to call gender a social construct then fine let’s separate sex and gender.

A person with a penis is not of the female sex.

Single sex spaces should be protected as that.

@AIMD

I’m not a medic, but higher libido might be a factor. Also the maternal instinct tends to wish to protect, rather than harm children.

There are also some men who do not abuse prepubescent children but are attracted to those who are physically mature (ie girls who have reached puberty) who seem to think that physical maturity and emotional maturity coincide. Studies have proven they do not, which is why the age of consent is set at 16 although a child may be physically capable
of sex before that.

This thread is getting driven off track.

Men are by far and away the majority sex offenders globally and always have been.

That's just true.

Back to the topic.

I have spent the last 12 years of my life working with and studying child sex offenders, both male and female. Most of the females however were usually voluntary community based programs instead of through the prison system

Trouble is, if you call men who identify as women women, then when you tell us that you've worked with women, we have no idea if they were men or XX women. It makes stats and information like this redundant.

Are there stats for men and women who voluntarily take up community programmes, or are these figures not recorded? I'm pretty sure the police now record people as whatever gender they identify as, not by sex but I'd still be interested to see.

Back to my other - first - point though. Who is focusing on what the victims need from the the process? Why is the fact that there are different reasons for being involved in the consumption of child sexual abuse - none of which are an accident - a mitigating factor?

Someone upthread said it's like crimes that happen when a man has an erection don't count. It's seeming more accurate as the thread goes on. When you look at the statistics for the number of drug addicts where were sexually abused as children (note: not all sexually abused people become addicts, but almost all addicts were sexually abused) and the impact of trauma on someone's entire life span, it's got to be one of the most serious crimes there is.

Would a man who drives a getaway car for an armed robbery in which someone was injured or killed get a community based programme because of their life circumstances?"

I'm support the idea of as much rehabilitation as is possible. I'm not saying these people should be locked up and the key dropped down a bottomless pit. But prison is used as a punishment and deterrent in the UK. It's not like we have the Norwegian system. This crime is so devastating to the victims that any involvement in it should surely reflect that. And it definitely doesn't.

@Howlat

Back to my other - first - point though. Who is focusing on what the victims need from the the process? Why is the fact that there are different reasons for being involved in the consumption of child sexual abuse - none of which are an accident - a mitigating factor?

Someone upthread said it's like crimes that happen when a man has an erection don't count. It's seeming more accurate as the thread goes on. When you look at the statistics for the number of drug addicts where were sexually abused as children (note: not all sexually abused people become addicts, but almost all addicts were sexually abused) and the impact of trauma on someone's entire life span, it's got to be one of the most serious crimes there is.

Would a man who drives a getaway car for an armed robbery in which someone was injured or killed get a community based programme because of their life circumstances?"

I'm support the idea of as much rehabilitation as is possible. I'm not saying these people should be locked up and the key dropped down a bottomless pit. But prison is used as a punishment and deterrent in the UK. It's not like we have the Norwegian system. This crime is so devastating to the victims that any involvement in it should surely reflect that. And it definitely doesn't.

This

@locked2020 anyone who receives a Pre-Sentence report will have their background and personal circs examined in some depth. Unless it is a case where custody is inevitable, there will inevitably be analysis of all the sentencing options available.

Of course the offence "making images" (there's a reason it's as clunky as it sounds) also includes:

1. hand drawn pictures from imagination and
2. collaging innocent pictures to make "indecent" ones.

@BananaPop2020 thanks

One disturbing thing is that police officers working on grading images are pre warned that they may find some of the issues cause arousal, and that this may just be a “physical reaction” to seeing the images.

They are advised to report it if it does happen so they can receive counselling and move off that sort of work.

What concerns me is that if an officer has such an attraction, they would be unlikely to report it as they have a ready supply of the material to view.

Fortunately, those who work in the courts rarely have to see the images because unless the descriptions or gradings are disputed, they do not get disclosed.

Also, if defence teams need to view the images only get see them at a police station in the presence of an officer and do not (for obvious reasons) get copies.

Also, if defence teams need to view the images only get see them at a police station in the presence of an officer and do not (for obvious reasons) get copies.

and the jury ?

Most of these cases result in guilty pleas.

In those cases that do go before the jury,
it is often not in dispute that the images were found and that they were indecent. Therefore they do not need to see them. The issue is often that defendant often claims it must have been someone else, they were hacked or some other feeble excuse. The Crown usually call expert evidence that shows their defence is crap.

It is only in a tiny percentage of cases where the jury are being asked to adjudicate whether the image itself is indecent do they actually need to see them. In those cases (as in all cases) they are, of course, not allowed to keep or take home any of the evidence and may be offered counselling afterwards.

Fascinating stuff. Thank you.

As a general rule, issues that affect children (and women) are not prioritised. The feelings of adults, especially men, are considered far more important than those of children in most cases. This is particularly true for SA, more so than other kinds of abuse, because there’s the narrative that children can’t/don’t understand what’s happening to them and might not even remember it when they grow up, so it doesn’t matter.
Children are given very little agency. This is often why images of CSA are seen as “victimless crimes”, because of course a child has no say in who views pictures of them, and it doesn’t occur to most people that actually, they should. Being in the scenarios that are photographed is horrific enough, but those photos are then viewed by god knows how many people, all without the child’s consent - they CAN’T give consent, and quite rightly. Most adults understand that if a naked image - not even one showing abuse, just a regular nude - were taken of them and circulated, it would embarrassing at best and probably devastating. But no-one considers how a child might feel when experiencing similar.
In answer to your question, OP, as long as men are considered the most important people in society, as long as the patriarchy exists, sentences will be pathetic. It’s an excellent example of how the patriarchy damages males too, as of course many victims of CSA are boys.

*it would be

Does what the images etc contain get described to the jury? In any kind of detail?

I just wonder if what is contained really lands with the jury iyswim

Not sure sure how to explain what I mean

@ShinyFootball

Does what the images etc contain get described to the jury? In any kind of detail?

I just wonder if what is contained really lands with the jury iyswim

Not sure sure how to explain what I mean

I know what you mean. Being told what grade a picture was would be very different from seeing it or hearing it described.

Problem is even more people seeing the images and also the jurors being traumatised

Not sure really but my sense is hearing a technical description Vs seeing could well make a difference