Sentences for people convicted of having or making images of child sexual abuse.

[AIMD]

I’m not someone that generally has too much of an issue with the types of sentences that the courts hand out but......why are sentences for having/making/distributing images of child sexual abuse so measly? I really don’t understand it?!

Is it unreasonable to think that anyone who has obtained, made or shared those types of images should face a custodial sentence and not ever just have a community sentence. Surely there should be more significant minimum sentence for those sorts of crimes to ensure that children are protected and there is More time to assess the offenders safety in the community?

Having/sharing/making images is abuse of children. The measly sent aces don’t reflect this though?!

Hello banana!

@BananaPop2020 thank you.

@BananaPop2020

Yes, you're right about that school of thought. In my personal experience though, the 'defence' is often so ludicrous that when the reality is exposed in court, it adversely effects the view of the offender by their friends/family far more than the original offence. So it backfires usually.

Sentencing for child sex offences in general seems to be terrible. A friend was sexually abused for 4 years by her mum's boyfriend, from age 6 to 10, and he got sent down for 2 years and served one. Unbelievable.

@WhereILiveIsWhereIStay completely. What I find quite interesting is the amount of men who plead guilty and then spend a long time after the fact saying that they only did so on legal advice etc....

Also, I have to say in the vast majority of cases I have worked on, family have stuck by the perpetrator and this is normally headed up by the wife/partner.

@msflibble this is often due to sentencing guidelines and the actual degree of harm caused. It’s worth checking out the different categories and how this is arrived at. Bear in mind that there will also be credit given for an early Guilty plea, previous good character and so forth.

I worked for a short time for a clinic that made a fortune offered a 'residential treatment programme' for your common or garden paedo who used their position of trust as a parent, relative, teacher, minister or youth worker to groom and abuse or who had been found with thousands of images. The only ones they wouldn't take were the ones who abducted children unknown to them.

They knew it wasn't working. They said it wouldn't work. At best, they said they might begin to understand how to catch the 'ones who make money out of this' more easily if they knew how their consumers operated.

They kept taking the Irish Priests and the networkers and traders and giving them contacts in different areas for their eventual discharge. They took them out for Saturday afternoons in pubs with beer gardens and play areas. They sent in doctors' notes with 'Nervous Debility' on the forms so they could claim benefits and qualify for local authority housing on discharge. They knew about scandals long before they appeared in the news - I know about them because I had to type up the notes of what they did and how they did it.

I left the job as quickly as I could once I heard the words from a member of staff 'We only worry about girls if they're at Primary, a teenage girlfriend is nothing to worry about'.

I wasn't of the opinion before, but by the time I left, I didn't think 'hang them all' - I thought a bullet to the head would be a more efficient use of resources.

@BananaPop2020

Yep me too. But then that's another reason why most plead guilty and why families stand by them. It's so easy to say 'I didn't do it but I was advised to plead guilty and it was just some stuff on pornhub and I didn't know they were underage'. It doesn't get heard in court so they can stick to that story.

A lot of people around them want to believe that or are just dim enough to.

But plead not guilty and have the reality described in court; the number of images and the content in all it's depraved horror described - not so easy to explain away and not so easy for family/friends to accept and 'forgive' or justify.

Some still will however and that I can't understand. Just descriptions i've heard of some images have traumatised me. I can work as a professional with that person but socialise/live with/share a bed with? No. No way could I. How people can, especially wives who have children with the offenders can...I don't know.

Owning a picture of abuse is a very different and much lesser of a crime than actually abusing a child.

Not if you're the child in the photo.

And this whole discussion (in general it seems, not just here) appears to focus on the perpetrators, the men (yes some women are involved but the last woman I saw convicted of this was actually a trans woman, so a man).

It's the criminal justice system. Being seen to serve justice is part of the remit.

Please tell a 10 year old who was abused in images/videos when they were 7, that are still circulating, that "there are too many people viewing these images to make it a custodial sentence", or "Don't worry, the guys jerking off to your bowl being perforated aren't commuting much of a crime because it's just an image/video".

Because this is the reality of what's going on.

@Howlat

Owning a picture of abuse is a very different and much lesser of a crime than actually abusing a child.

Not if you're the child in the photo.

And this whole discussion (in general it seems, not just here) appears to focus on the perpetrators, the men (yes some women are involved but the last woman I saw convicted of this was actually a trans woman, so a man).

It's the criminal justice system. Being seen to serve justice is part of the remit.

Please tell a 10 year old who was abused in images/videos when they were 7, that are still circulating, that "there are too many people viewing these images to make it a custodial sentence", or "Don't worry, the guys jerking off to your bowl being perforated aren't commuting much of a crime because it's just an image/video".

Because this is the reality of what's going on.

Yikes!

FYI trans women are women...not men

@BananaPop2020

That is correct, however I was advocating the death penalty for child rapists, not viewers of abuse images.

I also listened to the views of abuse victims who often said that they would not have wanted their abuser executed as it would have made them feel even worse. For this reason (and only this reason) I changed my mind on this long held view.

I recognise that the pro death penalty view is not the view held by the majority of Mumsnetters (though I imagine that a nationwide referendum result might be different).

I never advocated the death penalty for
those who look at the images, and though surgical castration would not stop contact offenders, it would certainly help stop images offenders from masturbating to such images and may act as a deterrent.

I have been told that I shouldn’t work in the Criminal Justice System with views like that.

But, frankly, many in the CJS simply keep their views to themselves (myself included) as voicing dissenting opinions doesn’t make for good job prospects.

I accept that I’m in the minority here, but hey, am I not entitled to my opinion, especially as it is an informed opinion?

FYI trans women are women...not men

Nope. They're trans women. By that definition they aren't women. The fact that most - almost all - have an intact and working penis is highly relevant to the case I mentioned above.

But sure, let's get upset about how a man identifies, rather than the children who are harmed.

@Howlat

FYI trans women are women...not men

Nope. They're trans women. By that definition they aren't women. The fact that most - almost all - have an intact and working penis is highly relevant to the case I mentioned above.

But sure, let's get upset about how a man identifies, rather than the children who are harmed.

You couldn't be more ignorant if you tried tbh

Many women, download and consume child pornography. So your original point is moot

@rwoollsey is the vast majority of child sexual abuse perpetrated by men though? I always thought it was but I’d don’t know if that was an assumption or I had actual read that somewhere.

[quote AIMD]@rwoollsey is the vast majority of child sexual abuse perpetrated by men though? I always thought it was but I’d don’t know if that was an assumption or I had actual read that somewhere.[/quote]
Yep, however the person I was replying to was in regards to those who consume child pornography

Women make up a larger percentage of those who consume child porn than those who commit abuse

@rwoollsey

The number of women who have been convicted of downloading child abuse images (not “child pornography”, by the way, an old fashioned term which legitimises the stuff), is so minuscule that your point does not hold water.

That is why it tends to make headlines when it does happen.

I have personally dealt with hundreds of cases of men doing this, but not a single woman.

@rwoollsey

I can self identify as a flying horse with purple spots if I want to.

It doesn’t make me a flying horse with purple spots.

@TheVoiceOfReasonableness thank you for replying, I completely respect that you are entitled to your opinion and I think sometimes people forget the art of debate when online. I hate the culture of people belittling and verbally walloping someone just because they have opposing views. You seldom change an attitude by attacking someone.

This is why I am pleasantly surprised this thread has taken the path it has, as we desperately need to talk about these issues and that’s proven by the comments on here.

[quote TheVoiceOfReasonableness]@rwoollsey

The number of women who have been convicted of downloading child abuse images (not “child pornography”, by the way, an old fashioned term which legitimises the stuff), is so minuscule that your point does not hold water.

That is why it tends to make headlines when it does happen.

I have personally dealt with hundreds of cases of men doing this, but not a single woman.[/quote]
Yep convicted

Many women do not get to trial for consuming child pornography

I have spent the last 12 years of my life working with and studying child sex offenders, both male and female. Most of the females however were usually voluntary community based programs instead of through the prison system

[quote TheVoiceOfReasonableness]@rwoollsey

I can self identify as a flying horse with purple spots if I want to.

It doesn’t make me a flying horse with purple spots.[/quote]
Wowzers

Transphobic, ignorant and uneducated - the trifecta

[quote TheVoiceOfReasonableness]@rwoollsey

I can self identify as a flying horse with purple spots if I want to.

It doesn’t make me a flying horse with purple spots.[/quote]
Wowzers

Transphobic, ignorant and uneducated - the trifecta

[quote TheVoiceOfReasonableness]@rwoollsey

I can self identify as a flying horse with purple spots if I want to.

It doesn’t make me a flying horse with purple spots.[/quote]
Wowzers

Transphobic, ignorant and uneducated - the trifecta

Do any of you with experience have opinions on why males are more likely to commit sexual offences/child sexual offences. I’m sure there’s many theories but I’d be interested to hear what they are.