Furlough CFery

[Sarjest]

A member of my DH’S team has been on furlough for the past three months. They have just started conversations about returning to work and she has requested that she brings with her the three hours she had built up before lockdown. AIBU that she is a CF and with that attitude this country will never get back on its feet? Three months off on full pay and she wants another three hours? Ridiculous!
YABU - she should get more time off, she’s entitled to it
YANBU - she should expect those three hours to be included in the three months she’s had already

I agree hobbes, it's a very dangerous road to go down, to accept employers just ripping up employment rights and ignoring policies because of covid. Where does that end? She worked the hours, the policy/law says she can request the time so she can request the time. Not sure why that makes her a CF. As others have pointed out, if she owed the employer 3 hrs they would make her work them so it should go both ways. No-one should have to work hours for free.

It's a legal entitlement so why wouldn't she ask for it?

I'm sorry but I don't have the attitude that employees should take the hit to save employers, we've been doing that since 2008 and I'm still waiting for it to let up.

I would complain about the general poor attendance though stating clearly how it affects you as that is a separate issue.

Employers can ask their employees to take holiday whilst on furlough so, I would think, they can ask her to take the 3 hours whilst on furlough. She couldn't refuse to take the holiday so I wouldn't think the 3 hours would be any different! I did a Webinar on this, with an employment solicitor, because I needed to know what the company could and could not request of their furloughed workers. Our company didn't ask our furloughed staff to take holiday but it was considered, along with other things, hence the Webinar.

I think she's entitled to the three hours or she's not. I don't think employment rights should be decided on the basis of what your manager's wife thinks or what decision the internet forum she decided to discuss it on come to. If your husband is her manager and he thinks the attitude will not do her any favours he should say 'that attitude is not going to do you any favours.'

Honestly, I'm not trying to be po-faced about it I just think we are all sadly lacking CLARITY at the moment and if your H's employer does not think TOIL can be carried over then that's the rules. It doesn't matter why she wants it - maybe it was for something she couldn't do during lockdown.

If she was entitled to it then I don't think they've any choice but to give her it to keep themselves right as anyone who has been off for 3 months then asking for it is the type of person who will know every employment law going for their own benefit

Yes it’s only 3 hours but a lot of companies are going to be taking the piss in the name of furlough I imagine. It’s 3 hours she was owed. She wasn’t allowed to work. It’s not her fault.
I personally wouldn’t quibble it but when does is become 15 hours someone was owed etc
Some large companies implementing things like this could be making an awful lot out of the people who work for them, who work hard to make someone else rich!

And yes as someone above says - employees legal rights aren’t really the business of the managers wife 🙄

I find the responses on here genuinely amazing. Yes legally she is entitled to them, and the company were silly to not build it into the conditions of her furlough. So she needs to be allowed to use them.

But this woman has been off work on full pay for three whole months. The company have gone above legal requirements to pay her at 100 per cent. And one of the very first things she asks about on her return is that she gets three hours (which is less than half a day) on top of that. Absolutely terrible attitude. Of course they have to give it to her, but it makes her look absolutely pathetic to any sensible person who works in a company who has been hit by Covid.

It is also completely different to people who need the time they have banked for a specific holiday booked at the end of the year that has been approved already. Not comparable. And people suggesting it is are ridiculous.

So yes she should get it, but she’s an absolute tool for asking for it as she comes back from THREE MONTHS off work on FULL PAY. And if she were in my team it would absolutely impact my view of her long term.

Why are so many of you chomping at the bit to eradicate workers legal rights 😂
Its bizarre and indicative of the petty little country we have become

@BarbsBaps

even with employees wages being paid by the government, they will still have lost lots in revenue

erm, no. there are many industries in a boom.

my own employer (profit making, private sector) has beaten its FY2020 two quarters profit targets by a mile. it's bonus time soon!

I think though if a company is making big profits and in a position to pay bonuses there very well may be questions asked by the government why they used the furlough scheme.

I have been working a full pay doing just part time hours to enable social distancing. My bosses decision and I'm eternally grateful. Holiday we had booked at Easter was cancelled, again my boss said it wasn't really holiday dealing with a pandemic and not being able to go anywhere. So I although I have been home lots I've accrued 6 days. I could offer them back but he wants us back in 5 days from Monday, fair enough. I have a 8 year old and a 5 year old only one is back in school. So I will use my 6 days to fiddle around childcare for the next few weeks. I know I am extremely lucky but my boss also knows proper treatment of staff will bring him rewards. We've had one of our best quarters ever during this pandemic. Give her the hours due, pull her up on her attendance
If needed. Maybe she's desperate for the money.

I don't think that the husband sounds like a manager, more like a team mate and, if his company got wind of his unprofessional behaviour in discussing this with a gossipy wife, then he'd be held to account for that. GDPR isn't just an annoying acronym.

@TheFuckingDogs

Why are so many of you chomping at the bit to eradicate workers legal rights 😂 Its bizarre and indicative of the petty little country we have become

Totally agree. Plus we have all decided that formalised rights in general should no longer exist and everything should be decided on the level of apparent moral outrage whichever option creates. Make proper guidelines for tackling a pandemic? No. Let's just invent the word 'covidiots' instead. Be clear about what employment rights you have after furlough? No. Let's allow people's outrage about three months paid work make the decisions for us. That way we can pretend we were giving individuals a lovely treat not trying to save the economy when we did it.

Legally she's entitled to them. Morally, there's no way I would do this. Some people are just very selfish and self absorbed.

@BarbsBaps

Business exists to make money. Maybe she needs the hours because then she won't have to pay breakfast club or babysitter or something, or maybe she has an elderly relative she was planning on supporting with that time... The fact is, the government have been paying her wages on furlough, not her employer.

If she'd falsified her timesheet to say she'd worked the 3 hours and it was found out, she'd have the wages clawed back, right?

Why are employees so eager to see their colleagues dumping basic employment rights like accurate pay, TOIL, etc which unions fight to get recognised?

I say this as both a manager and non-union member, for the record.

You don't know what's going on in her life - either she's entitled to it, or she isn't. Virtue signalling by giving up time for your employer is great if you choose to. But don't peer pressure this colleague into doing the same.

This. I work, I don’t volunteer, for a corporation not a charity. Because I have bills to pay, kids or no kids.

I hate all this virtue signalling because people like that are the reason corporates like my old employer take the piss and expect you to do stuff for free in your spare time, and often pay to do so yourself.

Pandemic or not, she worked for that TOIL she gets the TOIL.

@Shamoo I think the responses and perspectives are varying so much as everyone has had different experiences. I've worked for companies that have had pay freezes since the crisis and have stuck to them regardless of how well they did financially in better times. Companies where people have left and never been replaced forcing staff to work until they break and not letting them leave until the work is completed but not paying for overtime because it's "optional". As a result of being treated appallingly for years I have no loyalty left to give and I know my rights and expect them.

Without the context of the company it's impossible to make a balanced judgement so responses will vary wildly based on people's own experiences. If it's a great company that treats staff well then yes I'd agree that it doesn't say much about her but I have very little experience with these companies so my response was very one sided.

I've since realised that the OP doesn't even work for the company so we won't get any unbiased context so it's impossible to make any kind of judgement here other than it being none of her business

While I think this person is being extremely foolish to mention it right now considering it's only 3 hours owed, she did earn it and it's not connected to furlough or any other issue with her attendance or performance.

stardance said she had built up 30 hours TOIL doing training so what should she do, just forget about those hours?
vionelle replied 'it's up to you - but honestly how many hours have you been furloughed and paid for already'

The two things are not related. Furloughed employees have no choice to be off and, in most cases, would rather be at work. Why should they feel they owe their employer time or money when they had no say in being furloughed?

However, I wouldn't make a fuss about it right now, it's not the time to put your head above the parapet

@GinDaddyRedux

While I'm not of the hair-shirt parish that seems well populated on here when it comes to workplaces, I also think it's pretty clear here that this person has completely failed to see the bigger picture and they are completely unreasonable.

Agreed!

Although it does depend on whether you are hourly paid and every second is taken into account, or you're on a professional salary. If the former, I have more sympathy with her. If the latter, less so.

So she's just had three months off on full pay? Surely the employer has paid those three hours many times over out of its 20% contribution to her furlough wages.

As they didn't write anything into the furlough paperwork, their hands are bound. However, if I were her manager I would certainly be remembering this and her general attitude towards work when pay reviews and any redundancies come up.

The entitlement is outrageous. All this time off and she wants to carry three measly hours? Wow.

Actually I think anyone who has built up TOIL is still entitled to it. One of my staff has 14 hours TOIL. They have no urgency to take them but they were built up by her working on her days off to cover for someone off sick. She keeps them or gets paid.

I'm not sure what you're struggling to get your head around OP but she has worked for TOIL, she is therefore entitled to TOIL. Completely unnecessary to bring your gossipy husbands co-worker's situation onto a public forum and complain that "unfortunately" it would be difficult to make her redundant. Really? Give your head a shake because it doesn't change the facts, and wanting somebody to be made redundant over something they're legally allowed is pathetic.

She needs two days to prepare to come it? She is so taking the piss

Very true @Tarantallegra and I suspect I am projecting what I would think in our business given what we have done for staff. Although if they have topped up to 100 per cent when they didn’t have to, I suspect that does say something about them as a business. But you are right, it depends a lot on the business.