Furlough CFery

[Sarjest]

A member of my DH’S team has been on furlough for the past three months. They have just started conversations about returning to work and she has requested that she brings with her the three hours she had built up before lockdown. AIBU that she is a CF and with that attitude this country will never get back on its feet? Three months off on full pay and she wants another three hours? Ridiculous!
YABU - she should get more time off, she’s entitled to it
YANBU - she should expect those three hours to be included in the three months she’s had already

Tiptoes, I care because if that attitude is commonplace this country will be down the Swanny. Her employer has been topping up her furlough payments so they have been paying her something and she won’t waive three hours. I was surprised someone would even ask but I’m more surprised that there is a significant number of people who think she should get it. I understand there would be exceptions (large TOIL or holidays booked) but three hours?

There's a lot of it going around. My dh has been working throughout. Doing extra hours to cover the furloughed workers. He's had to cancel holidays and wasn't allowed to take any during this time. The furloughed workers are coming back and the company has taken a weeks holiday off them. One lady is up in arms about it not being fair and that my dh now has more holidays than her. She's been off over 3 months on 100% pay.

Another chap I work with said why would be want to go back to work for 20%.

I’m on the fence on this one. It’s her right to have the 3 hours but asking about them now is poorly judged. If she’d kept quiet and booked them off later then there wouldn’t be an issue.

Is she technically entitled to it? If so, let her have it. If not, say no.
I’ve not been on furlough and perhaps don’t understand the ins and outs, but it sounds like a bit of a slippery slope if those who haven’t been working (not through choice) are going to come under arbitrary moral pressure to work differently.
Just follow the law.

Would the company make her do the extra hours if she owed them?

As previous posters have said, she's worked the hours so should be paid for them, or given the toil.

@FlameFartingDragon

What do you do? And why does it take other people so long to do it?

It takes people so long because they aren't trained and don't have the knowledge to do the job at speed. Absolutely not their fault, I work in a niche area. Plus those three people are two full time people and two other people working part time - I am sure they have made it overly complex by attempting to split the workload.

It would take a while for the emails, most will require bespoke replies.

8000 emails requiring bespoke response, at about 20 minutes per email, on a 7 hr day, is over a year, without removing weekends, holidays, etc

How can you work at 160%?

Why were you furloughed?

I was surprised someone would even ask but I’m more surprised that there is a significant number of people who think she should get it. I understand there would be exceptions (large TOIL or holidays booked) but three hours?

First of all, she is ENTITLED to those 3 hours. She's worked them. Simple.

You're issue is 'it's just 3 hours', so where would you draw the line? 5? 10? 20 hours?

How on Earth could you or your DH possibly know what she might be going through? She might need those 3 hours for whatever reason.

Lastly, it's none of your fucking business. No we don't have to give and take because the majority of the time the employer does all the taking with little give. That's why we have employee rights.

Everyone should get time off if they are entitled to it.

She is entitled to them , plain and simple. If the shoe was on the other foot would the business let those three hours go because it's all about give and take? I highly doubt it.

Surely she's entitled to those hours, she's already worked them? To all the people who think it's petty of her to demand them still, surely it is equally petty for the employer to deny them? She's been off for so long, what difference does another morning make?

As for the idea that three hours - that someone has worked - is cause for her to be made redundant, that's ridiculous. IF there is a legitimate need for redundancies, they can be made, fairly. If her performance isn't good enough, she can have a performance review and ultimately be let go if she isn't up to scratch.

There are ways to get rid of unwanted staff provided you go about it in a fair manner. An employee working extra hours and then expecting to be given the time off later on doesn't seem at all unreasonable - in fact the opposite, she showed herself willing to be flexible with her working hours.

@ShadowMane Exactly.

No one has explained why I was furloughed, however, there's a rumour that I will head up a new team on my return and they were "testing resilience". I doubt this rumour is true as they are making redundancies at the end of the Month which have been rumoured since pre-covid times.

Hardhat, This is a talk forum. I was eliciting opinion on whether people thought it was reasonable to forgo a nominal amount of time off, given that they’ve had much more time at home during the last few months. I’ve received that opinion - it wasn’t the one I expected, I’m sorry to say.

Thanks for all your replies.

what would have been enough banked hours that she's not pressured to give them up though, op?

4 hrs?
8 hrs, i.e. a day?
two days?

how much do you want this employee to donate to her employer..?

Yes technically she's entitled to them, but in her shoes I'd have kept my head down and let it go.

Tbh it'll reflect badly on her regardless if she's entitled to them or not. I'd view an employee in a very different light if they did this in my team. You might not officially be able to do anything about it, but when redundancies, opportunities or pay come around she'll either be in the top or the bottom of the pile. Companies are in business to make money, to keep going, even with employees wages being paid by the government, they will still have lost lots in revenue. If employees are daft enough to think there won't be redundancies over all sectors they are very much mistaken. Who do you think will be the first to go, someone who is whining about 3 hours after having 3 months at home, or someone who's not? She's hardly proving herself to go that extra mile is she. HR will make sure things are equal, but the managers and hr are all human and she'll have marked her own card.

@stardance it’s up to you - but honestly how many hours have you been furloughed and paid for already?

Less than all the other furloughed staff actually but that's because my contract is for less hours. Some of the others might also have some TOIL saved up but most wont. So I'd have worked 30 hours at the beginning of the year for free but they won't have? I also think if it were the other way round and I owed them hours, they'd have been taken back as soon as possible.

even with employees wages being paid by the government, they will still have lost lots in revenue

erm, no. there are many industries in a boom.

my own employer (profit making, private sector) has beaten its FY2020 two quarters profit targets by a mile. it's bonus time soon!

my own employer (profit making, private sector) has beaten its FY2020 two quarters profit targets by a mile. it's bonus time soon*

You are in the minority then.

Your DH and his employer are incredibly unprofessional!!!

How dare your DH’s manager disclose the request of his colleagues and if your DH is her manager then that’s even worse he has NO business discussing it with you.

No one should be talking about her request to you at all and you have the audacity to think she’s the CF!!

She is indeed entitled to ask for her time, whether that is in lieu or paid. It doesn’t matter if she was furloughed full pay or not. She’s an employee with a contract not a volunteer.

If she's entitled to it, then she should take it.

So OP, your husband gossips to you about a member of his team, about her work - and you bring it here for another gossip and hopefully some nasty swipes at her? Nice. You sound delightful, the pair of you.

One of my mates was on furlough for 3 months, was miserable about it. He's back at work now and it's not as it was before, it's very stressful, being out of he loop with no contact does that. Yes, the country has to rebuild and some of us have been working throughout, some of us haven't, we've got to get it done.

I don't see how vilifying somebody you don't know is in any way helpful, other than to give you and your gossipy husband something to talk about.

Why should she work half a day for free?

Nope, nope.

Just reading the rest of the thread now, and I'm so glad I'm not entirely in the company of people like the OPandHusband.

@Sarjest

Tiptoes, I care because if that attitude is commonplace this country will be down the Swanny. Her employer has been topping up her furlough payments so they have been paying her something and she won’t waive three hours. I was surprised someone would even ask but I’m more surprised that there is a significant number of people who think she should get it. I understand there would be exceptions (large TOIL or holidays booked) but three hours?

@Sarjest where would you draw the line, in your expert opinion, on what would be an acceptable amount of TOIL to request? 3 hours is clearly nothing to you, so maybe a day, a week? Bearing in mind the time has already been earned through working overtime. The company policy clearly allows for TOIL, so should the company write a new policy that states TOIL will not be honoured?

Surely a good employer protects the rights and welfare of their employees? And doesn't fuck them over as soon as they get a chance.

I'd be mortified if people working for me thought I'd take away their basic employment rights or threaten them with ending their employment just because they asked for something they'd already earned. My team work hard and put extra effort in because they know they are valued and it's a two way street. With your attitude they'd all leave of their own accord.

We are currently thriving and have very positive results YTD. A lot of that is through the positive attitude of my team, so clearly it is possible to be a good employer and respect your team in these tough times.

Struggling to understand why you think it's any of your business. It doesn't affect you, so why are you so bothered?

I find the attitudes on this thread, that we should all be tugging our forelocks and grateful for our jobs guv’nor, a bit depressing. Our employment rights are important, hard-won, and already under threat due to Brexit. We don’t need to race to the bottom.