To think the human race should respectfully die out?

[RomeoLikedCapuletGirls]

I’m not being goady as I’ve genuinely thought about this over the past few years as the following issues have come to the fore:

Climate change
Industrial meat industry
Pandemics

I’ve tried being vegan but always revert to eating meat for health. I’ve come to the conclusion that it was a much needed part of our evolution. The problem is of course the intensive whole scale nature of it, and the suffering it causes. Even the plant industry causes a lot of damage to the environment and ecosystems. The sheer numbers of humans needing feeding is the problem.

Again, with climate change. It’s a question of over-population. The more of us there are the more we deplete our earth’s resources we deplete. Limiting consumption is simply not working so we need something else.

And although we might crack Coronavirus, there’ll be another virus along soon to challenge us. And it’ll spread quickly because there are so many of us.

I’m not advocating mass suicide of course!

Just that we encourage our offspring to not have children until we have either died out or at the very least reduced our numbers to such a point that we are just one species amongst many, living on this planet and not causing the disproportionate amount of harm to the environment and other animals.

There’s nothing to argue that the human race should continue forever.

I am all for a reduction in population, in a purely rational kind of way. But you have to plan for it in a very inhuman way if you want it to work. First, only reducing the amount of newborns would work but would create a unbearable burden on the new generation, as they would have to support the previous generations on severely reduced human resources. Therefore, even if everybody in the word was willing to breed one child (ah!), there would logically need to be a culling of the older generations, so as to not waste resources and energies. Or letting them die out with no government or community support. Seems inhumane, but the other side of the coins for the efforts that will be required of the younger generations. Wanna volunteer?

Human civilisation is not 'the greatest thing in the known universe'. There is no species-independent way of assessing greatness. These things only matter to humans because they're the race who created them. To an ant, an ant hill would be the greatest thing in the known universe. It's sheer arrogance and selfishness that causes humans to rate the works of Shakespeare or the paintings of Van Gogh more highly than an ant hill or a beaver dam or a nameless lump on Planet Mars

I absolutely agree.

I am not taking one side or the other, and definitely not encouraging snuffing out grandma or the above 65s, btw.

Human civilisation is not 'the greatest thing in the known universe'. There is no species-independent way of assessing greatness. These things only matter to humans because they're the race who created them. To an ant, an ant hill would be the greatest thing in the known universe. It's sheer arrogance and selfishness that causes humans to rate the works of Shakespeare or the paintings of Van Gogh more highly than an ant hill or a beaver dam or a nameless lump on Planet Mars

Agreed.

Box if you say you don’t want to do it through law or medical needs then how and who decides?

Oops sorry I didn't think it posted first time!

For the avoidance of doubt, i agree with @Pelleas

You might have a solution but the practicality of it sounds difficult. How does it work?

@LochJessMonster

Not true. Animals can have a huge impact on the habitats of other animals. Deer and beavers spring to mind.

@MarshaBradyo - I don't have the answer to that. I believe it would be absolutely wrong to impose population reduction measures. I don't agree with it at all. I would hope that it would come about via a collective understanding of what over-population does to the planet, and individuals/cultures taking mutually agreed measures to limit that damage. That's, unlikely though, tbh.

I'm just saying that 'but people will always want to have babies' doesn't really hold up as an argument. In my opinion.

What ‘s the point of planet Earth if the most intelligent creature doesn’t exist on it anymore and doesn’t find enjoyment and appreciation in it?
I am a big fan of animals, I love them. I love nature. But what’s the point of all this without humans? Animals live driven by instinct and then die. They don’t have the intellect to understand that their existence is part of a bigger picture. They are not aware of a bigger world and don’t care about it beyond their daily existence so it is wasted on them. The dinosaurs didn’t have a point without us admiring them from afar in time. They just ate, shat, fought, mated and reproduced without understanding why. You need a creature intelligent enough to be able to understand the whole planet and all of its habitants.
We also destruct but we potentially have the capability to stop the destruction. Without us the planet would flourish but to what purpose?

LochJess if this mass extinction event was imminent and your family was offered a safe bunker with no repercussions when it’s over, would you take it? There’ll be a nice pleasantly populated world on the other side so you won’t be lonely.

I ask because I recognise I have a fight or flight response to threat, and an instinct to protect my young, all humans do. Yet reading this thread it would appear none of us do and we are ready to hand over to the animals.

But when threatened our adrenaline raises and we fight for survival to the bitter end. Or struggle to survive over time. It’s why I’m finding these posts incongruous.

I'm just saying that 'but people will always want to have babies' doesn't really hold up as an argument.

It’s not so much an argument but more if a hurdle. And it’s a big one so I’m wondering if anyone has a way to overcome it.

I’m not advocating mass suicide of course!

In a way, you are.

Our evolutionary programming is to survive and reproduce in any way possible.

There are too many of us, but not a lot we can do about it. There are about 65 million of us in the UK. What exactly can we do with ourselves? Hold a reverse lottery and the 5 million winners get to be incinerated as biofuel?

What ‘s the point of planet Earth if the most intelligent creature doesn’t exist on it anymore and doesn’t find enjoyment and appreciation in it?

Are you joking? You have got to be joking.

@LikeDuhWhatever - are you actually serious?

Humans have been around for a miniscule fraction of the earth's existence. About a minute or so if the earth's history was condensed into a 24-hour clock.

And in that time we've managed to really fuck it up royally.

I cannot believe some of the stuff I read on here sometimes. The arrogance of the human race is fucking breathtaking.

I completely agree with you OP, and I have thought this way for a number of years.

Unfortunately, the amount of eye rolling on this thread just goes to demonstrate how superior humans think they are.

I would urge anybody who agrees with the OP to have a look at the charity Population Matters.

@MarshaBradyo

I'm just saying that 'but people will always want to have babies' doesn't really hold up as an argument.

It’s not so much an argument but more if a hurdle. And it’s a big one so I’m wondering if anyone has a way to overcome it.

Yeah, I think we're agreeing really @MarshaBradyo.

HappyMeal do you have dc?

What ‘s the point of planet Earth if the most intelligent creature doesn’t exist on it anymore and doesn’t find enjoyment and appreciation in it?

We are absolutely not the most intelligent creature on this planet. We are destructive, selfish, war mongering. We obliterate other species'. We are a scourge on the face of this planet.

Irrelevant if I have no children or ten children. I could have had 10 in the 1990s and changed my mind over the last 20 years.

Bit easy to tell others not to if you did have ten.

You got to but you’ll feel better for the animals if others don’t?

And if you did will you tell or discourage your dc not to?

I’ve tried being vegan but always revert to eating meat for health

This is crap. A plant based diet is much healthier than one involving meat or dairy.

Yabu to suggest we ‘encourage’ our children not to reproduce. It is not our business to encourage or discourage this and its a bit hypocritical if you have yourself had children.

All you can do is your bit. You seem to be expecting others to act but not yourself!

Interesting take on what I said.