Black Lives Matter not allowed to be discussed in class

[Geppili]

AIBU to be shocked that my primary school DS told me that they are not allowed to mention or talk about Black Lives Matter. Apparently teacher said that it is a political issue and therefore against the rules to discuss? They are Year 5. I am angry and shocked.

@chomalungma

Many people have supported BLM thinking it is anti-racist without properly researching. A teacher would be behaving unprofessionally to do the same and could mislead the class into thinking that she or the school support a political group without fully understanding the intentions behind it

Do you think there is a difference between saying "Black lives matter" and the political group that you just mentioned?

Or do you think that when someone says "Black Lives matter", then they must be referring to the political group?

How do you know though?

It's the name of an ultra far left group, it's been involved in much of the action. How do you separate it?

One wrong tweet and one persons opinion within blm does not represent the whole movement.

What??? So if an organisation tweeted a racist comment you would say the same? Oh, just.one wrong tweet (on the official Twitter page) doesn't mean the organisation is racist?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

One wrong tweet and one persons opinion within blm does not represent the whole movement.

What??? So if an organisation tweeted a racist comment you would say the same? Oh, just.one wrong tweet (on the official Twitter page) doesn't mean the organisation is racist?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras of course the tweet of one individual does not represent every follower of the organisation! if you voted Tory then you agree with DC statements regarding watermelon smiles, picannies, referring to muslim women as letterboxes? if I worked for Sainsburys and they tweeted something offensive, do all employees have the same view?

mum2b2017

No, if an organisation tweets a something then that is representative of the organisation.

If a conservative voter tweets something then I would consider that to be the individual's opinion, not reflective of the Conservative party.

If the Conservative party tweeted something,on its official Twitter page, then I would consider it to be representative of the Conservative.party as an organisation.

chomalungma

No doubt the same experiment could be repeated for class, different ethnic backgrounds and other characteristics.

Haven't they just done a TV program on this based on something form American schools?

This is an article discussing claims on anti semitism following a Facebook group by a BLM Oxford, which apparently uses the name BLM but isn't officially part of BLM

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475857/amp/Black-Lives-Matter-accused-anti-Semitism-posting-photo-controversial-mural.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15937678118037&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-8475857%2FBlack-Lives-Matter-accused-anti-Semitism-posting-photo-controversial-mural.html

Then this is an article that discusses, and shows the tweet, from BLMUK (not sure if I can post a picture of the tweet)

www-eveningexpress-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/black-lives-matter-uk-criticised-for-claim-british-politics-is-gagged/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15937678118037&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eveningexpress.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fblack-lives-matter-uk-criticised-for-claim-british-politics-is-gagged%2F

So, there seems to be definitely an issue with anti semitism and BLM and clearly the "BLM" name is linked with groups and with some questionable beliefs.

Should schools discuss this element when discussing BLM? Should they acknowledge the potential that it's encouraging anti.semitism? If not why not, particularly if there are Jewish students in the class?

In my classroom I do have all the power I'm in charge and control Everything, it's not a democracy, I don't allow certain opinions to be aired ( racist sexist homophobic etc ) Any pupil power is v limited to controlled discussions etc
As for the teacher mentioning a medical condition context is everything
Big difference between saying "ohhh me knees or I can't eat sweets I'm diabetic than my ex husband gave me crabs

In fact I'm happy to go one further and say that white people can't experience racism.

The sort of dozy comment that always makes me laugh! Are people really so thick as to believe that racism is a one way street? I've been racially abused by Asians in shops in the North West or do we change the definition of racism to make that OK?

@onemoreuser you’re seriously deluded if you think that there’s equality in Britain

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

This is an article discussing claims on anti semitism following a Facebook group by a BLM Oxford, which apparently uses the name BLM but isn't officially part of BLM

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8475857/amp/Black-Lives-Matter-accused-anti-Semitism-posting-photo-controversial-mural.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15937678118037&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-8475857%2FBlack-Lives-Matter-accused-anti-Semitism-posting-photo-controversial-mural.html

Then this is an article that discusses, and shows the tweet, from BLMUK (not sure if I can post a picture of the tweet)

www-eveningexpress-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/black-lives-matter-uk-criticised-for-claim-british-politics-is-gagged/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15937678118037&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eveningexpress.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fblack-lives-matter-uk-criticised-for-claim-british-politics-is-gagged%2F

So, there seems to be definitely an issue with anti semitism and BLM and clearly the "BLM" name is linked with groups and with some questionable beliefs.

Should schools discuss this element when discussing BLM? Should they acknowledge the potential that it's encouraging anti.semitism? If not why not, particularly if there are Jewish students in the class?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras the 1st article states they are not officially linked to BLM so thats a none issue A lot of people, myself included, protest the illegal Palestian occupation by Israel. So if that is one of the missions and views of BLM I am fully supportive of their right to an opinion over it

@larrygrylls

FTM,

So is ‘transwomen are men’ inflammatory on the same basis?

I do think literal meaning is important, though, and that is why I find ‘transwomen are women’ to be problematic.

And, getting back to the actual thread, that is why it would be a really hard topic to deal with in Year 5, especially by a classroom teacher without following careful guidance.

I am a massive fan of free speech, but there are so many who aren’t these days and the consequences of ‘getting it wrong’ can be career threatening. I think that everything should be discussable and alternative views need to be listened to (which, to be fair, you are doing to me).

@larrygrylls Did you mean to say "transmen are men"? If so, I don't think it's as inflammatory as saying "transwomen are women" because of context. There shouldn't be a blanket rule for things. Life is complex. People are complex. We are multidimensional, intersectional people.

FWIW, I disagree with both statements. But, let's be honest, saying "transwomen are women" is way more provocative than saying "transmen are men" simply because of how women have historically and are currently treated and viewed upon in society.

With the situation in the classroom, it may be a difficult topic, but the teacher seemed to make things worse by attempting to silence free speech. The student seemed to have just said "black lives matter" which is a statement in its own right. He/she didn't say "I support the BLM movement". It was a complete knee jerk, panicked and uncalled for reaction in my opinion.

Racism is very insidious. It's sad that people aren't allowed to say that black lives matter without it being linked to a political movement which seems to have become far removed from its original core intents.

mum2b2017

Yes, I pointed that out about the first group. However, they use the name BLM. So, when people say they support BLM, or in the scenario in the op, who's to say they aren't referring to any of these BLM?

BLMUK tweeted something being regarded as anti Semitic, why shouldn't that form part of a discussion when BLM is spoken about?

Schools should be neutral. If an organisation holds problematic views then it should be permissible to discuss them.

I just asked DD2 who is in Y6 if they've discussed BLM. She is aware of the protests from The Week Junior and from Newsround. They have discussed racism in school and learnt about the kind of casual racism people face. I think a good primary school should absolutely discuss current affairs with their KS2 children.

School teachers should not push their own political views but they should absolutely encourage discussion among the children. Interesting that the some schools see racism as a political issue not to be discussed but the sterilisation and mutilation of children is a perfectly acceptable ideology to push.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

mum2b2017

Yes, I pointed that out about the first group. However, they use the name BLM. So, when people say they support BLM, or in the scenario in the op, who's to say they aren't referring to any of these BLM?

BLMUK tweeted something being regarded as anti Semitic, why shouldn't that form part of a discussion when BLM is spoken about?

Schools should be neutral. If an organisation holds problematic views then it should be permissible to discuss them.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras but we are talking about 9/10year olds! They most likely dont even know theres a whole BLM group, so that wouldnt even be up for discussion. To them ‘Black Lives Matter’ is a statement

@mum2b2017

So, you don't want them to actually have a discussion about BLM then? How would you like school to handle it? A general discussion about racism? But then that's not BLM

[quote Hearhoovesthinkzebras]@mum2b2017

So, you don't want them to actually have a discussion about BLM then? How would you like school to handle it? A general discussion about racism? But then that's not BLM[/quote]
you are being purposely obtuse now

mum2b2017

No I'm not.

I've asked how you would like the school to handle this. You don't seem to want all of the BLM views discussed because, in your view, the children aren't likely to know that BLM is an organisation. So, what is it you would like discussed? Racism in general?

The teacher may simply have been trying to keep them on track with their learning.
It is a possible comment out of context.

@CountFosco

I just asked DD2 who is in Y6 if they've discussed BLM. She is aware of the protests from The Week Junior and from Newsround. They have discussed racism in school and learnt about the kind of casual racism people face. I think a good primary school should absolutely discuss current affairs with their KS2 children.

School teachers should not push their own political views but they should absolutely encourage discussion among the children. Interesting that the some schools see racism as a political issue not to be discussed but the sterilisation and mutilation of children is a perfectly acceptable ideology to push.

Can you clarify what you mean by: "the sterilisation and mutilation of children is a perfectly acceptable ideology to push"

If you're talking about FGM, it's taught in order to raise awareness and prevent FGM, though I would have thought that was obvious. If not, then...?

My youngest is in y9. Ate trans matters on the primary syllabus now? There was no teaching about trans matters when he was at primary. (They did discussions on racism in general though)

@mum2b2017

I don't follow your point either - not trying to be obtuse. What do you think should be discussed that is specifically "Black Lives Matter"?

My understanding is that BLM:

1. was originally an organisation fighting for fairer policing in US but also with wider political aims
2. has now been taken on as a slogan, meaning something like "there are lots of issues that specifically disadvantage black people and we should work to address them"

I would say that teachers can and should raise children's awareness of the second meaning, even at age 10. But not really of the first meaning (and if we did, it would need to be presented without bias as it is political).

Some people, including hearhooves, struggle to disconnect the first meaning from the second, and so would rather discuss the concepts in meaning 2 without encouraging children to explicitly say "BLM." I'm OK with that, so long as they are also not discouraging children to say "BLM."

Is that what you meant, or have I misunderstood?

It's been well over a month since the protests/rioting started. You'd think the teachers could have had a meeting and brainstormed a way through it by now. Or the education dept. They've left it pretty long. How much longer do they need? Don't forget Black Lives Matter has been trending on social media on and off for at least 2 years now. If they don't have a formulated plan by now, that's their fault and pretty slack of them. I would have expected it long, LONG before now.

I am not sure most people read social media however (I am nt on twitter, facebook and that kind of thing) nor should debate be led by what people are most currently interested in. However teachers can certainly teach these things if it comes up. Eg my son's prep school head made sure every boy watched the film Schindler's List at school when they were 12. I thought that was a very good idea. He also made sure they all knew and could sing the British national anthem and a load of other useful stuff too of all kinds. Good teachers tend to do things well and not foist their own views on others either and say the Tory party may be right, the Labour party may be right rather than saying socialism rules okay.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/amp/53193917

Latest Chris Evans 500 words comp for ages 5-13 is focused on BLM.

Children are perfectly capable of discussing these issues and should be.

@cabbageking

The teacher may simply have been trying to keep them on track with their learning. It is a possible comment out of context.

@cabbageking They were watching Junior Bake Off.