Black Lives Matter not allowed to be discussed in class

[Geppili]

AIBU to be shocked that my primary school DS told me that they are not allowed to mention or talk about Black Lives Matter. Apparently teacher said that it is a political issue and therefore against the rules to discuss? They are Year 5. I am angry and shocked.

I have a lot of sympathy for teachers on this one. It’s become an emotionally charged debate going far beyond the fact that black lives do matter.

I can guarantee there was an email or something from the head. The teacher was probably repeating what was stated about BLM.

It's definitely an important discussion to have. But it was the end of the lesson. It wasn't the time to discuss it.

In the same way I'd gloss over comments relating to sex education, made at a time that wasn't appropriate to discuss it, this matter needs thought to present it in a reasoned way. Just as the lunch bell is ringing is not the time for such discussions.

Yes the teacher responded in a way I wouldn't, but I don't know any of the background.

So, OP, instead of relaying all our responses to your son about what we've said on MN about this, perhaps you should be telling him that it wasn't a good time to discuss that particular issue but that it is important and hopefully there will be the chance to really look into it and discuss it proudly at school.

Oh, and the teacher sharing something about her private life? Are you serious that your son is confused about what are the rules for discussion? Is a teacher not allowed to put a stop to one discussion before lunch on one day, but on a different day at lunchtime mention something about themselves? Perhaps they're spending some or all of their lunchtime with their bubble, not getting much break in the day away from the kids, so they were making conversation. It's that okay with you and your son?

discuss it properly, not proudly

@netflixismysidehustle

I have just the same experience with 10 year olds I teach when it comes to US and Trump. To any of them who are aware of Trump, he's a caricature to make fun of. But they feel he's not relevant to them really as he's just a figure on the news.

Interestingly, discussing George Floyd, the protests and police brutality brought up similar views. All were aware of the various protests. "In America, there's lots of racism." "American police have guns and so they're dangerous, but our police don't." All of this from a classroom where I, as teacher, was the only white person. It really surprised me that they've already learned the narrative that the UK is a completely fair and non-racist society. I don't believe this and I tried to gently explain that some individuals are racist and that some systems are racist - they could mostly follow the first point but not the second.

It was an important discussion and lesson. It did feel like a fine line to tread with children already struggling with Covid, avoiding making them fearful but trying to increase their awareness. I can understand how a teacher who was not prepared might feel uncomfortable with suddenly beginning a big discussion on racism (leaving aside the specific issue of BLM, which is initially a political movement, even though it has been appropriated as a more general anti-racism slogan), but I would really hope that they'd come back to it at another point.

Sallylovescheese over invested?

Interestingly, discussing George Floyd, the protests and police brutality brought up similar views. All were aware of the various protests. "In America, there's lots of racism." "American police have guns and so they're dangerous, but our police don't." All of this from a classroom where I, as teacher, was the only white person. It really surprised me that they've already learned the narrative that the UK is a completely fair and non-racist society. I don't believe this and I tried to gently explain that some individuals are racist and that some systems are racist - they could mostly follow the first point but not the second.

You, the only white person in the classroom, tried to explain to them that their BAME UK experience is all wrong?

Do you honestly think you know more about this subject than your BAME students do? That they are incapable of deciding for themselves. That they have wrong think due to "narrative" and it's your duty to correct that?

I'm really shocked by this post

It really surprised me that they've already learned the narrative that the UK is a completely fair and non-racist society

I can assure you that this is not the case at all. We know of racism from a younger age than you can think. I can't imagine where you could possibly be that you have a class full of black children that think racism only exists in America.

I'm guessing they aren't black.

& Flaxmeadow there are individuals and systems that are racist, there's nothing wrong with that part because it's fact. Much of MN is beginning to feel archaic compared to other places where it's not a case of metaphorically facing the wall "No it doesn't exist so long as I don't look at it" mentality.

@growinggreyer

Why would this have been a hard discussion for a teacher to have?

Because, believe it or not, teachers have to follow policies and the directions of their Head teacher. If the Head has said that discussion of this subject has to wait until there is a proper plan then THE DISCUSSION HAS TO WAIT UNTIL THERE IS A PROPER PLAN! And yes, I am shouting because you are not listening.

Shout all you want, i teach 30 yr6 children so quite frankly you are talking shit. As a teacher I have no qualms with discussing such an important topic, even more so when the OP stated it wasnt even during ‘teaching’ as the class were watching JGBBO. Perfect opportunity for an impromptu conversation regarding the current situation. There is nothing political about discussing why black lives matter in the current climate, noone is suggesting you have to delve into police brutality, systemic racism etc
Quite frankly if you as a teacher do not know how to have a discussion, then you need a new job. But i guess some of you can use your white priviledge to ignore the situation as its clearly ‘someone elses problem’ as clearly Black Lives Dont Matter

Only so much teachers can do. They are last in a chain of directives.

Its quite telling that some of you, quite purposely I think, are unable to separate the words ‘Black Lives Matter’ from the BLM group
Being uncomfortable in engaging in a discussion about a groups intentions are one thing, especially when they dont fit your own ideals. But it seems that some of you are actually unwilling to acknowledge the main topic instead you are quick to sideline to other things sbout the BLM group that you dont agree with.
There have been plenty of impromptu discussions with classes I have taught over the years in regards to current issues.
Maybe its because I work in an inner city school so all of my children, except 2, in 5 years have all been BAME. Naturally we discuss things that will or have affected them and racism is one of them. There are always racist incidents in schools, mine included and I don’t actually feel as if the issue is discussed as much as it should be.

What part of discussing racism makes some of you uncomfortable? Is it because doing so would make you have to acknowledge your privilege?

@LolaSmiles
Maybe some of us want to do complex issues justice in an age appropriate way.
Maybe some of us want to allocate proper space to the issues and have done appropriate research.
Maybe some of us care that often with social and political movements the main publicised aim that gets support also acts as a vehicle for other agendas and we don't think that can easily be dealt with each time someone wants to make an off the cuff comment.

Why is racism a complex issue? What would you need to research to know that racism is wrong?

[quote solidaritea]@netflixismysidehustle

I have just the same experience with 10 year olds I teach when it comes to US and Trump. To any of them who are aware of Trump, he's a caricature to make fun of. But they feel he's not relevant to them really as he's just a figure on the news.

Interestingly, discussing George Floyd, the protests and police brutality brought up similar views. All were aware of the various protests. "In America, there's lots of racism." "American police have guns and so they're dangerous, but our police don't." All of this from a classroom where I, as teacher, was the only white person. It really surprised me that they've already learned the narrative that the UK is a completely fair and non-racist society. I don't believe this and I tried to gently explain that some individuals are racist and that some systems are racist - they could mostly follow the first point but not the second.

It was an important discussion and lesson. It did feel like a fine line to tread with children already struggling with Covid, avoiding making them fearful but trying to increase their awareness. I can understand how a teacher who was not prepared might feel uncomfortable with suddenly beginning a big discussion on racism (leaving aside the specific issue of BLM, which is initially a political movement, even though it has been appropriated as a more general anti-racism slogan), but I would really hope that they'd come back to it at another point.[/quote]
I think the business about systems is really important. There is a reason 10 year olds don't quite get this - they are not yet system thinkers. If you tell them, they can probably say it back, may even be able to repeat it to others, but they don't quite get it.

But even for adults, I suspect that some here who are saying this is very straightforward are coming from a place of only really hearing on POV. If you look at discussions of what it is about racism that is systemic, how that works, why it is that way - these are difficult and controversial questions, academics write a lot on these questions and disagree. because it's not really saying anything to say - racism is systemic - you have to show what that is. Just as in any other system, naming it doesn't tell you how the system works or why.

So in a school with a bunch of 10 year olds, what are you going to tell them about that? Are you going to talk about different theories around the idea of systematic racism and their pros and cons? Because the fact is they will be too complex for them, they are too complex for many adults.

It's not really necessary to talk about it in those terms anyway. At 10, addressing systemic racism is not in your power. What is in your power is to love people, see them all as valued, and treat them with respect. In a few years they will be much more capable of thinking about these things analytically.

There is nothing political about discussing why black lives matter in the current climate, noone is suggesting you have to delve into police brutality, systemic racism etc
Except they ARE part of the discussion and BLM is a political movement and that's precisely why it warrants some thought and proper time.
Quite frankly if you as a teacher do not know how to have a discussion, then you need a new job.
Missing the point. Nobody is saying that teachers can't have discussion.
But i guess some of you can use your white priviledge to ignore the situation as its clearly ‘someone elses problem’ as clearly Black Lives Dont Matter
Nobody has said black lives don't matter.
Being uncomfortable in engaging in a discussion about a groups intentions are one thing, especially when they dont fit your own ideals. But it seems that some of you are actually unwilling to acknowledge the main topic instead you are quick to sideline to other things sbout the BLM group that you dont agree with.
More missing the point.
Why is racism a complex issue? What would you need to research to know that racism is wrong?
You're selectively and repeatedly missing the point now as you're quite deliberately trying to make the claim 'if you won't talk about BLM whenever someone calls our the slogan then you're clearly racist'.

@LolaSmiles
You're selectively and repeatedly missing the point now as you're quite deliberately trying to make the claim 'if you won't talk about BLM whenever someone calls our the slogan then you're clearly racist'.

Actually no, I didnt say that. You stated it would take time to think of a sufficient answer in regards to an off the cuff discussion, I asked why? Its as simple as saying yes black lives do matter and racism is wrong

Also why do you keep calling it a slogan?

@LolaSmiles
Nobody has said black lives don't matter.

Maybe nobody has said it in those particular words but thats the underlying tone on these threads

YABU. Even if they did have these conversations in school.. There wouldn't be a conversation, if you don't agree with the movement you're automatically labelled a racist, so it would simply be some for of indoctrination into BLM, and shocker! Not everyone supports BLM.

It’s too complex from reading some of the issues on here you can see people lack knowledge. There’s one thing disagreeing with BLM but what I notice is the ones saying they don’t agree (which is not the problem) don’t say however I can understand XYZ.... for me this is the reason it cannot be discussed in a classroom.
You cannot teach someone who doesn’t want to be taught. Hence the comments on this thread.

Surely like all discussions it has to be age specific, so it should be discussed at all ages.

@mum2b2017 speaking sense here but you know some can’t hear it.

Actually no, I didnt say that. You stated it would take time to think of a sufficient answer in regards to an off the cuff discussion, I asked why? Its as simple as saying yes black lives do matter and racism is wrong
To do a discussion justice and to credit students with some intelligence then time and appropriate consideration is required because a discussion of BLM in the news is not a discussion of 'racism is wrong'.

Racism is wrong. Nobody is disputing that and it's slightly concerning that you seem to be taking the view that people holding different views as to how discussions are managed in the classroom is an 'underlying tone' that black lives don't matter.

I said it's a slogan because it's currently the name of a political movement and a chant used at rallies. It's the name over a movement and a campaign emerging from several issues, including systemic racism and police brutality.

When discussing issues with students these are things we would discuss and explore. These are the sorts of questions that students ask about so I wouldn't be derailing a lesson to have lots of social and political discussions without considering my group, their likely questions, having fact checked things that have gone on social media so I can challenge misinformation etc. I'd set time aside to discuss things properly and have a space for a proper discussion.

On the one hand you're saying you'd have all sorts of discussions off topic in class, but then when some of us say that we would want to give discussion proper time and space then you're saying 'well why would you need to prepare, if you want time to gather information then you clearly think black lives don't matter, no need to talk about all the related issues, no need to discuss the movement, just say racism is wrong'.

Redroses05 It's not even about personal beliefs of teachers. It's about considering the class, their background, their parents.
Opening up air time to whatever a student wants to call out doesn't equal open an interesting discussion, especially if the main criteria to what follows is 'does the teacher agree'.

I've had a range of amazing discussions and debates with students about a range of emotive social and political issues. It comes with the territory given what's covered in literature. I just don't agree with stopping lessons to derail onto whatever a student calls out.

@Redroses05

It’s too complex from reading some of the issues on here you can see people lack knowledge. There’s one thing disagreeing with BLM but what I notice is the ones saying they don’t agree (which is not the problem) don’t say however I can understand XYZ.... for me this is the reason it cannot be discussed in a classroom. You cannot teach someone who doesn’t want to be taught. Hence the comments on this thread.

exactly

@LolaSmiles clearly you are missing the points I have made in my posts, either being purposely obtuse or genuine misunderstanding, either way its a shame because it took me a long time to type all of that.
I can only assume you have no first hand knowledge of being black and neither the demographic of the children you teach and the area you teach in requires you to have already found out some information. I mean people have only been saying Black Lives Matter for quite a few yrs now and it was only on the news for weeks
Maybe on a personal level you may want to research so that if a child does ask, they wont be fobbed off and made to think the issue isnt important and though ‘they’ may not be affected, a lot of people actually are.

@mum2b2017
You say it's not difficult to discuss. I tried, in the most sensitive way I could. Look at @flaxmeadow response to my post and you'll see why you're wrong.

And yes, 3 black children along with several other ethnicities. They believed that the problems were Trump and America. I explained that many protesters felt that there were many problems with racism in the UK. I didn't tell them that their experiences were wrong, because I'm not an idiot.

As teachers, we're very used to saying "some people think" and "most people believe" - because we need to deliver content without bias.

@missyoumuch thankyou! Some people like to pretend theres not an issue and are quick to brush it off. Protests have been happening since 26th May which is Plenty of time for people to inform themselves, especially fellow teachers. It was bound to come up, I have had numerous conversations regarding it

The comments on here suggest some posters have been living under a rock. Good on the kid for being politically aware. Shouldn't an effective teacher have used it as s learning opportunity?