To wonder if people will think more carefully about becoming parents after this?

[OrangeSlide]

Do you think that now people have seen that the shit can hit the fan and they might be solely responsible for the well-being and education of any children they bring into the world, in particular without practical state support in terms of schooling, people might be less inclined to have children?

I wondered this at the start when schools closed and I’ve thought about it more and more as the situation has progressed.

@IndianaJonesAndTheTempleOfBoom

We’re all the product of a long line of people who, until a few decades ago, had no access to reliable contraception. If you had sex, you had babies.

Yeah - and they knew that. And still had sex. If they really cared about not bringing children into rubbish circumstances, they wouldn't have.
It's true, most women didn't have much of a palatable choice. But they did have some unpalatable ones.

Well, if they were allowed to exercise them. Lots of women have lived in circumstances where the males who controlled them wouldn't have permitted them to end a pregnancy and would've penalised them if they thought they had.

without friends, toddler groups, playgrounds, garden centres with petting zoos, NT gardens... and on and on, occupying a toddler has been next to impossible

Makes you wonder how we managed when, with the exception of friends, none of those things existed.

@Alsohuman

without friends, toddler groups, playgrounds, garden centres with petting zoos, NT gardens... and on and on, occupying a toddler has been next to impossible

Makes you wonder how we managed when, with the exception of friends, none of those things existed.

Well, not really. You can't miss what you never had. If this had always been our life we wouldn't be struggling would we?

Yeah, I’d never have had my kids if I’d known I’d have to homeschool them for three months. It would have been a total dealbreaker.

Same here. I specifically chose to have children on the understanding that I’d be able to get rid of them for 35 hours per week. Now I realise how foolish I’ve been.

Maggie90 Tue 30-Jun-20 16:35:25
I had my baby on the peak day of pandemic and haven’t once regretted having him. He makes everyday beautiful.

We just take him outdoors and for picnics etc. He doesn’t know what he’s missing and he such a happy baby. We just play with him a lot.

Wouldn’t have changed my decision to have him even with the pandemic.
...
That's lovely, Maggie and congratulations but he is a little baby and will be a baby for some time to come. Apart from not going anywhere except for essentials, your life is not much different to if there was no pandemic. It is a different kettle of fish for parents of young children who have to amuse. home school and often work from home.

I'm OK but retired so it hasn't been a hardship; however I often wonder how I would have coped with a lively child or children 24/7 in lockdown. Thankfully I will never have to find out but I know just from reading posts on here how very difficult it has been for some people.

Lots of women have lived in circumstances where the males who controlled them wouldn't have permitted them to end a pregnancy and would've penalised them if they thought they had.

Yep. But they could have tried to end the pregnancy anyway/run away to join a convent rather than marry/committed suicide rather than have sex/carry to term/invent contraception themselves/campaign for women's rights TO THE DEATH etc.
We're all the descendants of the women who DIDN'T do any of those things, and the men who probably had more freedom, but chose sex and children despite a shit situation for the kids.

It's not a moral judgement I'm making btw, just an observation.
We're the children's children's children of everyone who reproduced since the year dot, no matter what.

The only thing that has fundamentally changed for me is my faith in the state education system. It’s totally gone, thanks to a combination of the abysmal lack of leadership from the government and the utter shower my son’s school has turned out to be.

So I’m planning accordingly not to have to rely on it at any crucial times in my children’s lives.

Well, not really. You can't miss what you never had. If this had always been our life we wouldn't be struggling would we?

You’re either being disingenuous or missing the point. Parents - specifically women - have managed to entertain toddlers without those things since the dawn of time. Is the current generation of young parents so lacking in ingenuity that it’s suddenly become “next to impossible”? If so, their parents did a pretty shit job.

I’m too old now and dc is nearly 7 but if this had happened a few years ago we’d have aimed to have had a second child and maybe a third.
We chose to only have one on the assumption we could socialise with friends, cousins, family... I never ever imagined months on end of not being allowed to see anyone outside our household.

@Alsohuman

Well, not really. You can't miss what you never had. If this had always been our life we wouldn't be struggling would we?

You’re either being disingenuous or missing the point. Parents - specifically women - have managed to entertain toddlers without those things since the dawn of time. Is the current generation of young parents so lacking in ingenuity that it’s suddenly become “next to impossible”? If so, their parents did a pretty shit job.

I'm not missing the point. You get into a routine, you're used to things being available.

Believe me I have tried lots of things to keep my 4yo occupied but there is no substitute for other children.

It's easy to say oh we did it without xyz. Well yes because xyz didn't exist. But, realistically children in the past have often been left to fend for themselves from a young age and haven't been kept occupied in the same way they are now.

It's not necessarily a good thing that we feel we have to occupy our children 24/7 but that's how things are now and habits are hard to break.

You can say oh well we managed in our day with no electric and we had to hand wash out clothes in the river and carry babies on our backs while we did it. Well yeah, great, but there's a really good reason why we don't do that now, you know?

Its really hard having things taken away suddenly.

im pregnant, and according to my dates i literally fell pregnant when lockdown was commenced, found out after Easter, i had to have my contraceptive implant removed for health reasons and never imagined with my health and age id fall pregnant within 2 weeks , although of course married couple homeowners have 3rd child is hardly front page news. people have babies in far more irresponsible circumstances.

Parents - specifically women - have managed to entertain toddlers without those things since the dawn of time well speaking on behalf of my deceased mother I can guarantee she would have used an iPad had she had one with me.
Can’t say I miss the toys my child will use to distract any future grandchild of mine having a melt down.
Also far less women held down full time work, work that required evenings and weekends on their emails and mobiles. Plus we know far more now about child development, id say kids growing up 50yrs ago were far more ignored/ had a lot more freedom and a lot less mental nourishment.

Not everyone is scared off by responsibility and hard work. Not every pregnancy is planned. The population continues to rise unchecked regardless of vanishing resources. I'll go with ha ha No. This won't change much.

@TrustTheGeneGenie I hope I don’t know anyone in real life who would call children ‘shitty’ or ‘it’. Deliberately ignoring the bit about the followed through fuck, because It sort of sounds like someone crapping themselves while having sex.

No, tbh I would have had more if I thought I could wfh and have them here with me too. Best of both worlds. Having a good job, income and kids all in the same place. Am hating the thoughts of returning to normal.

Makes you wonder how we managed when, with the exception of friends, none of those things existed.

I think it was simply that the friends did a great deal of heavy lifting. A couple of generations ago children were in the company of other children much more than was the case immediately pre-lockdown and certainly much more so than now.

I think if this was ebola running through the country then it would slow people having children but I dont think covid has enough of a fear factor to have a dramatic difference.

I am 36 weeks pregnant (with my first child so have nothing to compare this pregnancy too) and have had an awful pregnancy due to really back sickness being in and out of hospital, but as soon as that finished covid-19 spread like wildfire and lockdown and restrictions hit.

Many of my Maternal appointments have been cancelled,
Family cannot go through milestones with me, such as baby shopping, first kicks, scans, the birth. (Certain hospitals aren't still not even letting birthing partners in)
I've been confined to the house as going to work hasn't been an option, being an NHS frontline worker I was sent home on medical suspension.
Trips to maternity triage have been alone as my partner isn't allowed in so I've gone through some very scary moments alone. (Such as Reduced movements)

• I've been alone both physically and emotionally feeling low and isolated most days as my partner is a police officer and still a key worker potentially exposed to covid -19 which is a huge worry and I'm classed as high risk.

And I've thought the same as OP quite often.. seeing and hearing of so many people taking now being the ideal time to get pregnant and chose to make the decision to start trying to conceive has made me upset, to think that people haven't thought through how they may feel or the consequences worries me.
In no way do I regret getting pregnant or wish things were any different as covid-19 wasn't around when we were trying or conceived. BUT however I do feel that I haven't enjoyed or made the most of my time being pregnant, through a situation I can not control, and just hope that those who have not long conceived are aware of the tough battle emotionally and mentally that they are about to endure as it's not been a good experience for many of us who've been pregnant throughout this pandemic.

Mental health is definitely something to keep an eye one!

♥️♥️

n3wmum20 I can see that its a shame your partner couldn't be present for some of these appointments. And I'm very sorry that you went through the scarey ordeal of the worry of reduced movement without him. Thats very tough.

But don't waste your time feeling like you're missing out. Being pregnant is part of life and for most of mankinds' existence we got by without, shopping for baby clothes, getting others to share in first kicks and scans. No one really needs to share in those things but you and your partner. Focus in on peace and calm, being in touch with your body and the extraordinary life that is growing within in you. Its amazing. Its also very much the calm before the storm. So enjoy the quiet and peace you have now, chat to friends and family, enjoy the fresh air, eat well and sleep well. The stuff you think you're missing isn't real its a sideshow.

Lean in and focus on you and your partner and the next stage of your life together. And let him shelter and protect you. This is what's most important now. Your future family.

@ProseccoBubbleFantasies

My theory throughout lockdown has been that there will be a massive spike in births in about 9 months time. There's been fuck-all else to do in lockdown!

This, definitely.

I can’t count the amount of threads that I’ve seen where the OP is halfway through a planned pregnancy and is now panicking having not done any figures about how they would go financially, before embarking on TTC.
So, no. I doubt it will make any difference. Because people have been embarking on planned pregnancies having not thought it through forever, something unplanned and unprecedented is hardly going to factor into their decision.

@hammeringinmyhead

I can't say I sat down and thought "What if I have a baby, go back to work, get made redundant, nursery closes and the baby's grandparents are banned from the house, so I can't get another job." Obviously. And lockdown has been horrible. But even if I had, I think everything passes. He'll be 5 and off to school before I know it.

As for not having to homeschool those under 4 - no, not technically, but without friends, toddler groups, playgrounds, garden centres with petting zoos, NT gardens... and on and on, occupying a toddler has been next to impossible.

Exactly- we can't live by the what if's. I think the last pandemic of this nature was the 1918-9 Spanish Flu. So an event like what happened this year with Covid is a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Myabe twice if heaven forbid there be a second wave.

I've decided to wait til I'm 30-32 and see where my stability, wealth and mental health is at then and then perhaps have a child if I feel ready... Or not. I would like to have one in my 30's I don't mind adopting or my own because birth really scares me because my own was so bad. I thought I wanted loads of children but I like my freedom and hate financial stress so thought it would only be right by putting myself first and having a child if I'm financially comfortable.

The birth rate is heading downwards anyway. I can't see why it would head upwards in an insecure world where women can access contraceptives. Plus the job insecurity/lack of childcare for women. Why have kids if it means losing your job? It's a factor in Japan and China, why not here as well? Rising sex inequality won't encourage higher birth rates.

What's changed? There have always been those who've considered and made an informed choice to bring a child into the world... And always those who have brought a child into the world due to; failed contraception, lack of contraception, rape, forced continued pregnancy, lack of knowledge of pregnancy, lack of means to access MAP, lack of opportunity to terminate an unwanted pregnacy. Should the argument not be to offer more opportunity to enable women to access the means to not have to undergo pregnacy as a potential outcome of sexual activity either wanted/unwanted? vs women being deemed as having it basically all laid on their shoulders to prevent the world being 'fucked up!', because women are the biological means to the human race continuing?