To wonder if people will think more carefully about becoming parents after this?

[OrangeSlide]

Do you think that now people have seen that the shit can hit the fan and they might be solely responsible for the well-being and education of any children they bring into the world, in particular without practical state support in terms of schooling, people might be less inclined to have children?

I wondered this at the start when schools closed and I’ve thought about it more and more as the situation has progressed.

who reproduced in the very worst of times throughout all history

This comment, the profound historical ignorance, hyperbole and total absence of any objective perspective is truly laughable.

This comment, the profound historical ignorance, hyperbole and total absence of any objective perspective is truly laughable.

Er - what? We can't be the genetic product of people who didn't reproduce because they thought the world was in a shit state at the time, can we?

The pandemic wouldn't be a deciding factor for having kids. The overt racism masquerading as freedom of speech would be a factor though.

Oh - unless you mean that you think that the worst periods in history didn't have humans in them? Do you consider the Mesozoic Era to be the worst in history, for example?
Perhaps I should have said 'human history' - I thought it was implicit, sorry.

Having had a 5 month old and 2 year old in lockdown I can categorically say the third baby I always pondered about will never ever happen now in case something similar happens. Severe PND and a hell of a lot of stress I’m not doing it again!

I don't think so. Millions of children were born in the 70s & 80s under the shadow of economic uncertainty, quite high levels of terrorism in many countries (remember the IRA, PLO & ETA) & the very real risk of some kind of devastating nuclear war or accident (Chernobyl could've been a lot worse). The world isn't inherently any more dangerous or unstable than it ever was.

Definitely seems to be a baby boom (from purely anecdotal evidence - we and 2 other couples we know are expecting their first!).

But to the original point, I think the OP has a point - we still want kids, but this definitely has me wondering if fewer might be an idea - previously I always thought 4 was the perfect number, but 3 was probably a good compromise. Now I'm erring towards 2 being a lot more manageable! From the sound of it on here, people with 2 kids seem to have the ideal set up with lockdown. As 1 child can be a bit lonely when they can't see their friends, and 3+ is a lot to juggle in terms of homeschooling.

@OrangeSlide

I watched a bbc horizon programme about these type of events becoming more frequent, so it is possible that this type of thing will happen again. Maybe AIBU, but I have wondered...

I’ve wondered the same

But for many, the need for children is too strong

I feel like environmentally the shit has really hit the fan in so many ways since I have had mine. It wasn’t on my radar certainly that this was all so close to going spectacularly wrong when I had my first.

I might not have them again as I really don’t like the world I will be leaving them with.

I had my baby on the peak day of pandemic and haven’t once regretted having him. He makes everyday beautiful.

We just take him outdoors and for picnics etc. He doesn’t know what he’s missing and he such a happy baby. We just play with him a lot.

Wouldn’t have changed my decision to have him even with the pandemic.

We're all the product of a long line of people who reproduced in the very worst of times throughout all history.

We’re all the product of a long line of people who, until a few decades ago, had no access to reliable contraception. If you had sex, you had babies.

MN is so prickly at the moment. The OP was a very reasonable comment and question and a number of posters went off at the deep end.

There’s a token arsehole on every thread who wants to tell you about their magical family lockdown. Fine, but think about it a different way.
Firstly, if lockdown has provided time with your family that you honestly didn’t have before (eg family meals at the table as cited by PP) then there was something wrong with your life. It should not take a pandemic to get a family enjoying each other’s company, and if it does then there is a problem.
Secondly, if your DC are perfectly content to be at home with you without the company of other children, the input of others adults and no broader experiences beyond the family unit, shouldn’t you be a bit worried about them and their development? DS1 isn’t missing his social life - while that’s very convenient in this situation it’s also a bit of a cause for concern!
In short, if lockdown feels really great then you have some thinking to do. If you’re making the best of a bad situation, that’s different. But if it feels great, think about it more.

I think it’s the same as anything, the people who are considerate of society and not selfish will think more carefully and plan better the ones that just do not care will carry on regardless.

The two child tax credit policy has not put off anyone I know or advise. They’ve just gone for it regardless of it will push them into poverty for their own selfish reasons without any regard for the children.

@Mamette it is if you are northern Irish and you identify as Irish. Under the good Friday agreement you can identify as British or Irish.

@Mamette but I get they put the UK AND Ireland. Not Great Britain and Ireland

@NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite

"Aren't people solely responsible for their children's well-being in normal times? I think the education thing has been very overblown." Some MNers have posted and are tearing their hair out being with their kids 24/7. Once they are school age, they are usually out of the home 5 days per week for hours so the teaching staff are responsible for them then.

I think the pandemic probably has brought home to parents how difficult it would be if they had to care for their children 24/7. It wouldn't be easy.

I think it's more the lack of facilities, socialisation and frequently having to do a job alongside having the children 24/7 that's been the real kicker. After all, a significant minority of parents are SAHP of children below free hours age, most women take some maternity leave and it isn't unusual for people in both cohorts to be without anyone else they could leave their child/rent with. The difference is that normally they can see friends and go to the playground!

People think about having children, and how hard it is? Right... 😂

Never going to happen. They didn't before lockdown, they certainly aren't going to afterwards. You'll still see threads from parents moaning about how difficult kids are. Because it's apparently not obvious beforehand. 🤷‍♀️

Well I had decided I was sticking at 2 children. Youngest is 7 this year and then BOOM pandemic baby on its way in January!

We’re all the product of a long line of people who, until a few decades ago, had no access to reliable contraception. If you had sex, you had babies.

Yeah - and they knew that. And still had sex. If they really cared about not bringing children into rubbish circumstances, they wouldn't have.
It's true, most women didn't have much of a palatable choice. But they did have some unpalatable ones.

To be honest it's put me off having kids, seeing my friends struggle and seeing people on here at breaking point with not being able to have help, having disabled kids, that sort of thing.

Pregnancy in a pandemic, and delivering a baby in a hospital full of covid would be very challenging I would imagine, and then to be at home alone all day without the usual baby groups and gatherings very challenging actually if dh is not working from home.

Taking on a child's education for this long (particularly when they are older) is definitely challenging, not so much with younger children for obvious reasons.

I should think it will definitely make most people pause and consider motherhood in a different way, if they are sensible, even just because the responsibility of keeping everyone well and healthy is pretty enormous. Especially at the beginning when we didn't know whether babies and children could die from covid, in the very early days it was pretty terrifying actually before the facts were known.

No. But I think people who already have kids will be slightly put off having more especially if both parents work.

@Muh2020

YANBU. There are some individuals on here who expect the state and any other available eejit to mop up and pay for everything for their shitty kids.

Honestly - sometimes I just want to say to some people: "That's your fuck that you followed through on, so go and parent it."

How disgusting.

I can't say I sat down and thought "What if I have a baby, go back to work, get made redundant, nursery closes and the baby's grandparents are banned from the house, so I can't get another job." Obviously. And lockdown has been horrible. But even if I had, I think everything passes. He'll be 5 and off to school before I know it.

As for not having to homeschool those under 4 - no, not technically, but without friends, toddler groups, playgrounds, garden centres with petting zoos, NT gardens... and on and on, occupying a toddler has been next to impossible.