To ask you - DS medicine or natural sciences

[Pumpkintopf]

Hi all, would really welcome some views on this -

Ds yr 12 has up till now been focused on applying for medicine this year. Lately however (very recently) he's not so sure and to be honest some of the stuff I've read - mainly junior doctor accounts of life in the NHS - do make me afraid for him, the hours and lack of support seem so intense. I do also understand that these may not be wholly representative- or maybe they are-DH and I are not medics.

He was always quite keen on a research type role anyway so given that, would natural science or similar be a better fit? Would love any views from those who have experienced either/know people who have...

ticks not tricks!

I think it honestly depends on the specialty
If you look at mine a typical week has a good mix of different skills required.

Monday AM- clinic (see about 10 patients each)
PM- minor ops (see and treat patients for minor lumps and bumps ie biopsies, epilation, electrolysis, minor procedures)
Tuesday AM- clinic
Tuesday PM- Theatre- bigger more complex cases operating for about 3-4 hours.
Wednesday AM- research/study/admin time/Private Practice
Wednesday PM- Theatre- as above
Thursday AM- clinic
Thursday PM- Theatre or Casualty session(seeing emergencies)
Friday- Research/Admin/Study/Private Practice
Friday- Teaching

As you can see it requires different skills- interacting with patients, operating, laser, dealing with minor operating, admin and research, private study, seeing emergencies and private practice.

In terms of pay as a junior going through training hours can be long and hard especially on-call (though not that bad for my specialty) and because of that pay is reasonable with banding for on-calls and increments as you become more senior. At consultant level it is very good with the added bonus of private practice which is lucrative in my spevialty. Overall I think medicine is long, hard and rewarding not necessarily in the financial sense though you will be comfortable and have job security. I think the best financial rewards come when you become a consultant and can expand into pp.

You said he likes knowing how drugs work and interact and didnt mind the chatting to the public bits, definitely sounds like pharmacy to me! My sister did it because that's exactly how she felt, she loves her job and it gives her security and flexibility around childcare, and she loves getting to know all her regular customers too

Research is great to start off (particularly if you are not money orientated) with but unless you have good people skills you will find it increasingly difficult to find jobs after you hit thirty or so. There is a lot more networking in science once you get to the level of applying for grants for yourself than you might think. Lots of people change career at this point in my experience. Some of which then did medicine but had to start almost at the beginning - Perhaps one year cut off the course.

I'm an anaesthetist.

Generally I love my job. Training was long, and there were lots of pressures- exams, difficulty getting leave for social things/ holidays etc. I did my fair share of crying in the loo. These issues are better as a consultant but they do still exist to some degree.

I am a people person and very practical. I get great satisfaction from taking time to speak to my patients and their families to explain what is going to happen and seeing them afterwards to check they are OK/ get or give feedback. In anaesthetics I do lots of procedures - cannulation/ intubation/ regional blocks - this really suits my practical hands on side but might not be for everyone.

When things go wrong clinically, however, it is really shit and makes you re-evaluate your whole self/ being / training/ role. I've had several moments in my career when I would have given anything not to be a doctor.

Other pressures as a consultant are administrative and the financial situation within the NHS. For example there is no desk space allocated for my dept. and we only got laptops to allow us to properly do our admin from home 18months ago. I cannot think of a single other industry that would expect senior (expensive) employees to work without providing them somewhere to do so.

There is something to suit most personality types within medicine - my working life is totally different from friends in other specialities. For example, I don't do a lot of clinical admin - I occasionally request a chest XR and if someone has a difficult airway I will write to their GP. Other specialities (community paeds!) seem to spend their lives writing letters and reports. As a junior you do a lot of admin but it is for a limited time.

If you decide not to practice clinically there are good opportunities available. I know people who moved across to research both as an undergraduate (so changed from medicine to Biology) and post graduation. In general, I believe, researchers with some clinical commitment earn more.

Medicine in generally pretty well paid although this has dropped in real terms over the last 15yrs ( my colleagues and I certainly don't have the lifestyles our bosses did when we were junior trainees) but apart from "city" jobs it's hard to find something better remunerated.

An out of London solicitor friend often bitches that their partner earns more for 3days of GP work than they do for a full week of law.

I did research during my intercalated year (Pharmacology) and have been the lead investigator at our site for some international clinical research projects - this is not lab based research, it's real life looking at patients reproach and I find it very fulfilling to contribute to medical knowledge.

Has your son spoken to anyone who is through the sausage factory of training - while training is long it does end. Consultant/ GP life is very different.

Hi all, thanks for all these views and the advice, it's so useful to hear from people with experience of both sides of the options.

He's currently planning to have a chat to his a-level teachers about careers and see if that is helpful. I think the consultant he shadowed would probably chat to him but he did talk to her at the time and she suggested her hours were still pretty long, not sure if that was caused by staff shortages or what - she worked in geriatrics.

why the focus on long hours in training?
Is that a big deal for him?
If he has passion to be doctor that won't be main issue.
If he thinks research he can go down natsci or similar..still has option to do grad medicine later
Of if he chooses medicine now he can also switch later. Writing personal statement now or by October..which comes easier? Focusing on why he wants to be a doctor (caring compassion empathy here is why) or why he wants to dive into studying science. ..different personal statement. He could think about both . Which is more of a fit right now?

Good idea to try writing both personal statements and see what comes more naturally/easier.

I'm not sure he's worried about the hours per se, that's probably more me worried on the basis of junior doctor's books that suggest they feel unsafe, understaffed and unsupported.

I would recommend Medicine every time. I actually know a couple of people who did PhDs, pursued scientific research careers, then studied graduate Medicine because it would enable them to progress their research career. Even if your son does fancy doing research, he may well find it an advantage to study Medicine first, then go down the research track and do a PhD (which many doctors do).

One thing I would say is that it is very easy to transfer straight from Medicine to a Science degree if you decide it’s not for you after you’ve started. It’s impossible the other way around- you’d have to re-apply.

Thanks both - yes I have heard impossible to transfer in to medicine. Also interesting that some researchers have gone for graduate medicine.