NOT TEACHER BASHING but do why do teachers have to do hours of planning every day?

[mostwonderfultime]

If the syllabus is the same every year which it is, do you not just use planning from previous years?
I'm sure I'm being naive but just read this on another thread.

So then you resign your union membership as they clearly don’t represent your views and you don’t get to have the benefits of their collective bargaining or the legal protection - your choice
eh?
the unions are there to also represent you in cases such as unfair dismissal.
Are you saying that if you don't agree with a particular reason to strike you should give up all union rights rather than saying , you know what, I don't agree with the strike so I'll sit this one out thanks.
I'm being transported back to the 70's.
ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!!
Thought we'd grown up a bit since then

People are fed up with having the kids at home and without anyone to really blame other than a microscopic virus they are just scapegoating teachers as usual. Teachers have always been villified in this country to a greater or lesser extent and we wonder why we have a recruitment crisis.

The problem with education is that everyone thinks they are an expert and a) knows what teachers get up to, b) know what teaching a class of children is like.

I'm not a teacher, but my partner is so I know that I couldn't teach and that teachers work damn hard. I think the fact that I love and care for a teacher means that I am probably extra defensive to all the shit that gets throw their way - from parents and the media determined to prove that they are lazy, entitled Marxists to idiotic ministers claiming that debunked Victorian-style class room methods that were adopted in their private schools are the solution to the problem. Since the reinvention of academies and the increasing centralisation of education and involvement of politically connected portfolio careerists the latter is just getting worse and worse.

The reality is that the vast, vast majority of schools have done the best they could in a challenging and shifting crisis and, as usual, they have had to rely on the good will of their staff. I think that the reaction by many in politics, the media and the public to this effort has been utterly disgraceful and full of hurtful insinuations. I predict a worsening of the recruitment crisis in education and potential extension into the primary sector as well.

The sad thing is that is doesn't have to be this way. I spent time working in Germany and how they treat their teachers is so different. They are given respect and a decent wage and are not micromanaged.

Just wanted to point out that GCSE Computer Science is on its 3rd incarnation of 9-1 qualification, since the first introduction in 2016. That’s 3 full syllabus changes in 4 years.
And previously, GCSE Computing had had 3 syllabus changes since 2012.
It’s exhausting.

www.ocr.org.uk/qualifications/gcse/computer-science-j277-from-2020/

Even so, for every hour teaching I need 1 or 2 hours for planning, preparation and marking during most of the year and at some points like the end of term much more than that
I think you need to rethink your work efficiency planning

I work in admin in a school having previously worked in many other industries and I can honestly say that the teachers work harder than most of the people I have worked for. They constantly have to be on the ball, constantly nice, always organised, its exhausting!

Tabby I taught secondary not primary but when I go to my kids’ parents’ evenings I am staggered by the volume of work they have in numerous exercise books, all of it thoroughly marked with colour coded pens and targets on everything. My sons’ teachers must work incredible hours. I can’t keep up with marking their bloody home learning and believe me, that’s tailed off to virtually nothing now - the school are still providing vast amounts of work for them (Y1 and Y4, the Y1 hasn’t gone back unfortunately!) but I haven’t the energy to keep up with it all. I have huge admiration for primary schools teachers. I know plenty and they work very hard.

After dropping the grenade and running, the OP has been back to say they have their answers now. They said this on page 6.

Shall we all just ignore the inevitable goading that's going to continue? It's like a full house of teacher bashing bingo in here with a healthy amount of sealioning with people saying 'it's not bashing to ask an innocent question'.

The stupid claims of 'people can't even ask a question about teachers without them getting defensive / teachers think they're soooo special and work harder than anyone' is going to continue whether decent answers are given or people disengage. Is it not worth leaving the circlejerk to do its own thing?

@TabbyMumz

"I imagine the 3 pieces of work per days is 3 different classes so done by 90 children. The children in each class will have done 1 piece of work but the teacher has to mark all 90 of them . You do realise a secondary school teacher usually teaches more than one class per subject per day?,"

No we are talking primary here, so one class of 30 kids all day. The teachers dont move to another class. Some people on here are trying to claim they have 90 pieces of work to mark every night. But they forget parents get to see their childs work, and that level of work is just not there. if you are lucky there might be 5 pieces of work per book. If they are doing 3 pieces of written work per day that's 15 pieces of work a week. Where is it?

15 pieces a work across every subject they study. A secondary teacher teaches more pupils, a primary teacher more subjects. We all do the same number of lessons per week. That’s - what - 10 subjects? So 1.5 per week in each. Does that sound right to you? You probably never see books for foundation subjects at home - I think I’m right I saying homework for primary tends to be on the core subjects.

@hashtagbollocks

So then you resign your union membership as they clearly don’t represent your views and you don’t get to have the benefits of their collective bargaining or the legal protection - your choice eh? the unions are there to also represent you in cases such as unfair dismissal. Are you saying that if you don't agree with a particular reason to strike you should give up all union rights rather than saying , you know what, I don't agree with the strike so I'll sit this one out thanks. I'm being transported back to the 70's. ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!! Thought we'd grown up a bit since then

Unions are their members. The ones who give positively are active ones. The ones who give the least are the ones who are happy to reap the benefits while putting nothing in and are even prepared to sabotage the efforts of their fellow members.

I'm being transported back to the 70's.
ONE OUT ALL OUT!!!!
Thought we'd grown up a bit since then

Well unions are not allowed to discipline members who cross picket lines so it is definitely no longer the like the 70s.

However unions are quite right to point out that collective bargaining only works if collective action is indeed collective.

@hashtagbollocks

If they vote to strike you should all strike unbelievably, i have been a member of a union and would never have voted to strike if I disagreed with it. I take it you don't have much confidence in your own opinions?

You’ve missed the point @hashtagbollocks. You can vote whichever way you want. If the majority vote to strike, you strike. Even if you voted against. Without solidarity, unions have no chance of protecting workers’ rights.

Are you saying that if you don't agree with a particular reason to strike you should give up all union rights rather than saying , you know what, I don't agree with the strike so I'll sit this one out thanks.
Yes.

@TabbyMumz you are totally missing the point. Non-teaching time is not ALL spent on marking. You seem to have got this into your head but there's a whole range of planning and preparation which you don't see. There's inputting of assessment data which you don't see. And then there's a whole host of duties dependent on the school level, teacher role and responsibility ... which you don't see.

Including but not exhaustively:

Differentiation of resources
Data input
Moderation of other assessments
Year group / staff meetings & actions
Developing Individual learning plans
Pastoral reports and safeguarding
Incident logs
Meeting / mentoring individual students
Meeting TA
SEN reports
Evaluation Reports (year / dept)
Development Plans (year / dept)
Assembly prep
Charity days / school trips / school play / concert/ extra curricular prep
Mentoring PGCE / NQT teachers
Observations of staff
Writing up observations
Performance Management
Break duties
Reports to governors
Classroom displays
Phoning parents
Sanctions and rewards
Tidying and preparing classroom equipment
Ordering classroom resources
Not to mention Ofsted preparation

Oh, and teaching.

And there's more but this is a snapshot.

I'm not sure why you've invested so much energy into attempting to persuade people that the job of a teacher is easy, and why this is so important to you, especially since you evidently know little about it other than what you've seen as a parent looking in, and since you evidently have no training in this area.

I wouldn't dream of insisting a GP's job is easy. I can't imagine all the things they do. If I was unhappy with my GP I would complain, but I wouldn't tar all of the profession with the same brush.

If the majority vote to strike, you strike. Even if you voted against
not if you don't want to strike you don't or have the rules changed recently?

carrie
nice.
Glad to see teachers respect other peoples' opinions

Because the government expect everything to be box ticked in triplicate and the LA bosses are so desperate to cover their own arses and protect themselves that they roll over and just pass on the unreasonable workload without question.

And all that's generally on top of actually educating your children...

@hashtagbollocks

If they vote to strike you should all strike unbelievably, i have been a member of a union and would never have voted to strike if I disagreed with it. I take it you don't have much confidence in your own opinions?

The union takes the vote. That's when I get my say. If the vote goes against me, then I'm expected to strike despite not agreeing.
That's how collectivism and unionism works. Whatever you think about it.

But surely all this is just like any other job? Responsibilities etc?

@TabbyMumz

You haven’t seen my books 🤷‍♀️

Spellings wouldn’t be one of the 3 books I’d mark- my TA does them with the child.

My 3 books are English, maths and a curriculum book eg history

If I teach a practical lesson, eg art or PE I may only have 2, however the prep for those lessons probably out weighs the fact I have less to mark.

My planning doesn’t take that long, I get it done in my ppa, my prep does take time. My display boards don’t create themselves.

I then have meetings, training, parents to phone, policies to write, training to plan and deliver and after school clubs to prep and run. Safeguarding incidents to log, liaison with other services. Meetings relating to children with SEN, IEPs to update. Tracking information to update, assessments and sharing data with SLT. Prep for pupil progress meetings and moderation with other staff of my judgements. Prep of any interventions, planning for support staff and meetings to check progress. Evidence of my own performance against targets for appraisals. Reports to write in the summer term. Mini reports to create at the end of Autumn and Spring. Assemblies to prep.

But..... I love it. My husband wishes I didn’t.

but you don't have to strike if you fundamentally disagree with the reasoning.
And why on earth would you if you think the reasons for striking are wrong.
Actually, don't know why we're arguing this as there's been no mention of striking!

Yes, of course it is, who has said it isn't? What we have said is that the hours we are in front of the children is only a part of our responsibilities.

@hashtagbollocks

carrie nice. Glad to see teachers respect other peoples' opinions

You really don’t understand unionism or collectivism, do you?

No cardibach, we are talking primary, not secondary. Teachers have said they are marking 90 pieces of work a night. Many have said 3 pieces of work a day, maths, English, spelling, and other subjects less often, once a week maybe. 3 pieces of work a night per child. That means 15 pieces of work a week per child. But that level of work isnt evident in school books. We see school books at school, not the ones they bring home. They are there for parents to see All of them.

@managedmis

Yes, you’re right, it’s just the job. I personally love it. What I don’t love is people suggesting I work 8:30-4 and suggesting that I don’t do what I do.

You really don’t understand unionism or collectivism, do you?
yes I do.
Do you understand freedom of decision to work? (whether in a union or not)