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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NOT TEACHER BASHING but do why do teachers have to do hours of planning every day?

379 replies

mostwonderfultime · 29/06/2020 14:24

If the syllabus is the same every year which it is, do you not just use planning from previous years?
I'm sure I'm being naive but just read this on another thread.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 29/06/2020 22:55

SchrodingersImmigrant
You're right.
One of my friends is on maternity leave and said they were tired at the weekend, and that they'd been kept up last night. Why do they think only parents get tired? Plenty of people get tired and have to go to work. My friend also said that she's finding it hard to keep on top of the house with 2 under 3s at home but she's got all day. I manage to zoflora my house daily so it's not that hard to do a full deep clean once a week and daily tasks. She's at home all day after all.

I really don't understand what she's complaining about. I'd love to have all day to get on with my housework so my weekends are free.

LolaSmiles · 29/06/2020 22:56

^^ not being goady, honestly. Like SchrodingersImmigrant I just genuinely don't know what parents do all day.

MsAwesomeDragon · 29/06/2020 23:00

In a normal week (during normal times, obviously) I teach year 7 for 3 hours. It generally takes me about 20 minutes per y7 lesson to plan, because I've been teaching a while now, it used to take longer. I also mark their books once a week, which takes just over an hour. So that's about 2.5 hours of marking/planning. Multiply that by 5 for the main school classes I teach. I also teach 2 A Level classes, which are a relatively new syllabus (as in, I was on my first time through this new syllabus with year 13 when lockdown happened, I haven't taught it all yet). That's 5 hours of teaching A Level, but it takes me at least 5 hours to plan it currently because of the newness. And I have to mark their weekly homework too, which takes a good couple of hours per A Level class. So 5x2.5 = 12.5 for main school, 9 hours for sixth form. That's 21.5 hours of planning and marking. 3 of those happen during the school day (PPA time), the rest are before/after school. There are often extras to do as well, like year group meetings, department meetings, reports to write, mocks week (I could spend 6 hours marking one class set of mocks), parents evening, etc. I don't think I work as hard as some of my colleagues, but I would say I average out as working about 50-55 hours a week, as a secondary maths teacher with plenty of experience. I can cope with that, as I know there's always a holiday coming up, and I can mostly be home in time to collect my primary aged dd from childcare by 5ish (but I do then have to work later in the evening, that's the payoff).

I don't complain about my workload very often but I damn well will start moaning if other people start adding to it. I can do a good job at the moment by having very low housekeeping standards at home but I would do a significantly worse job if I have to have more pupil contact time. Every hour of extra face to face teaching would also require about half an hour of planning. When an I supposed to mark anything?

TaxTheRatFarms · 29/06/2020 23:07

hashtag aaah that trauma runs deep! Grin I’ve sat through some excellent training and some that was utterly bonkers. I also have to deliver training which is terrifying as I don’t know which side of the scale I’m ending up on!

maudspellbody · 29/06/2020 23:14

@justkeepmovingon

Is don't read it as teacher bashing, interesting question that I was never brave enough to ask as my DS 4 years alert did the same lessons, same Egypt projects and same topics in primary, so I was never sure what the planning was actually for.

Hopefully you have the answer! Enough teachers have explained what they do now in quite a bit of detail!

maudspellbody · 29/06/2020 23:20

@justkeepmovingon

Is don't read it as teacher bashing, interesting question that I was never brave enough to ask as my DS 4 years alert did the same lessons, same Egypt projects and same topics in primary, so I was never sure what the planning was actually for.
Sorry. Again!

The topics for each year group are probably laid down in the long term planning. So the topic of them Egyptians' will be taught in year 4 (or 3 depending on the school). The chances of both of your D.C. having the same teacher is pretty slim. If it is the same teacher, then they probably will use a lot of the same stuff and tweak it for each group. But even that takes time as the difference between cohorts can be surprisingly big - and you only have to have a couple of children with particular SEN and you have to plan an entire curriculum just for them...

But anyway - if you have a different teacher (which would be common - most schools move teachers around), then the planning will probably be done from scratch. Teachers generally don't like teaching from someone else's planning (I definitely don't) and will have their own ideas of activities and lessons. So the planning is re-done.
It may look the same to you because there are only so many ideas in the world - and good ideas are often replicated - but the minutiae of exactly how something is taught, with what resources and how it is differentiated will be different for different teachers.

Does that make sense?

Fifthtimelucky · 30/06/2020 00:31

It's the DfE and Ofsted who decide what good teaching looks like. Teachers just have to jump through the hoops.

*Simply put - it's not up to us.

Accepted pedagogy changes rapidly. At the moment, text books would be anathema - they do not allow for personalised learning or child-centres learning or...whatever it is we are doing this week.*

It's the DfE and Ofsted who decide what good teaching looks like. Teachers just have to jump through the hoops.

This is a myth. Ofsted's School Inspection Framework is very clear that Ofsted does 'not advocate a particular method of planning (including lesson planning), teaching or assessment; it is up to schools to determine their practices and it is up to leadership teams to justify these'

I've no doubt that if we wait long enough, text books will come back 'in', but I think, in general, it's against everything we have trained teachers to do for the last 20 years.

It's not DfE that doesn't want textbooks. Nick Gibb is a great fan of them!

Namenic · 30/06/2020 02:18

Would teachers find it easier if curriculum changed less often? Are there some schools that do central lesson plans that the whole dept uses - does that help/hinder?

Durgasarrow · 30/06/2020 03:38

There are constantly new and different demands on teachers. In some places, teachers have to teach to strict standards, and they have to document how they have addressed each of the standards in their lessons (certain US states), for instance. Sometimes schools get new technology and teachers have to learn to do their planning a whole new way. Educational trends change (Phonics! Whole language! Phonics!) and whatever was wonderful one year is horrible now.

Durgasarrow · 30/06/2020 03:41

No, it probably wouldn't help. Teachers aren't automatons. They don't just read out a script. They are individuals with their own ways of reaching their students.

IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0 · 30/06/2020 03:49

OP: You do realise that each child is different and therefore each class? I taught for many years, and yes, the curriculum would remain pretty much the same but not the pupils. One of the major tasks of being a teacher is not just to teach, but recognise the abilities of the 30 kids in front of you. That's why we are not just "teachers" we are studied pedaguogs. Go look that one up in your Oxford English (assuming you have one or even know what it is-

stayathomer · 30/06/2020 04:15

After 3 months of homeschooling I tip my imaginary hat to teachers. I have 4 kids all very different in terms of what they want to do and at the start of it I had oh so many plans and in the last days nothing I had planned had gone right and I hadn't kept most of it up, when I look at the extra mile some teachers have gone for them I'm very impressed

theduchessstill · 30/06/2020 05:35

@Namenic

Would teachers find it easier if curriculum changed less often? Are there some schools that do central lesson plans that the whole dept uses - does that help/hinder?
It would definitely be better if the curriculum and the exam specs stayed the same. in my department we plan collectively and share resources but, as has been explained, these must be tweaked, or changed quite radically, for each particular class. You also need to pause and plan lessons to address misconceptions and weaknesses following an assessment or just your observations of what the class is struggling with. Then you also want to incorporate the ideas you have - many teachers are very creative and enjoy that element of the job immensely.

What would help would be more teachers and therefore fewer classes to teach. In my school (secondary), a full-time classroom teacher with no management responsibility or A level classes has 6 classes they are responsible for (we're a core subject so see our classes at least 7 times per fortnight, depending on the year group.) If that could be reduced to 5, especially if two of the 5 could be within the same year group it would have a massive impact on planning time needed imo. It'll never happen though...

Phineyj · 30/06/2020 07:58

Something that has helped me greatly in lockdown has been getting rid of all the "stuff" like cover lessons, invigilation, break duties, photocopying... These chop up your time and you can't do anything else during them (maybe read your emails in a cover if the kids are good and the computer's working). With that plus gaining back a 12 hour commute, I can actually spend most of my 30 hours a week (that's for a 0.5 contract) planning, teaching and marking. But the surplus has vanished into educating/entertaining my own child as well so I don't have more time overall. I think as well as just considering the teaching, you have to remember the teachers are also (normally) helping organise a community of 500-2000 kids.

MsSweary · 30/06/2020 08:04

These threads are so tedious. Last week it was a CAMHS bashing thread.

hashtagbollocks · 30/06/2020 08:11

schrodinger
I don't do any planning regarding parenting.
Except planning holidays.
The rest of the stuff you mention: I've been doing all that for a few years so know what I'm doing without having to take twice as long planning as the activity takes.
I think you'll find the ones who really moan either have children with additional needs or are badly organised .
Not being goady but sounds a lot like being an organised teacher

hashtagbollocks · 30/06/2020 08:13

Oh, and before you jump down my throat, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to have the odd moan if you have a more challenging child ( I should know)

SchrodingersImmigrant · 30/06/2020 08:49

@hashtagbollocks no way you don't do this "life admin" and not plan every minute of the day😱 That's so unmumsnetty😱
😁

NearlyGranny · 30/06/2020 11:43

Bottom line question for all teacher bashers: If you think it's such an overpaid doddle of a part-time job on a full-time salary, why aren't you doing it yourself?

People's answers tell you everything you need to know and no further discussion is necessary, except perhaps in the form of a single raised eyebrow. 🤨

Mittens030869 · 30/06/2020 12:04

Teacher bashing is a favourite pastime for some posters. But their accusations are just not accurate. I've never seen a comment from a teacher that they work harder than any other profession, or that they work until midnight every night. They just defend themselves against allegations that their job is a cushy number and that their day finishes at 3:15. Of course they'll defend themselves by describing how much work their job actually involves.

maudspellbody · 30/06/2020 12:08

I know. It's like teachers all got together somewhere and said: 'oh shit. We have it too easy. Let's all agree to think up a bullshit list of things we do all day, then turn up on Mumsnet to all agree with one another. They will never know we're lying...'

cologne4711 · 30/06/2020 12:32

I just genuinely don't know what parents do all day

or why mums are always "busy mums". There doesn't seem to be a "non-busy mum" (except me). As for "life admin" - well there have been hundreds of MN threads about that! I don't know what "life admin" is!

Phineyj · 30/06/2020 18:12

@NearlyGranny full time job on a part time salary. Fixed it for you Grin

NearlyGranny · 30/06/2020 19:09

@Phineyj, true, only too true! 😉

Mrskeats · 30/06/2020 20:09

Lol yes life admin
Apparently it's a reason why women don't work. However those of us who work full time manage to get it done.