NOT TEACHER BASHING but do why do teachers have to do hours of planning every day?

[mostwonderfultime]

If the syllabus is the same every year which it is, do you not just use planning from previous years?
I'm sure I'm being naive but just read this on another thread.

Specifications and syllabuses do change so that takes up time.

I find though that it very much depends on the class. I teach A-level Physics and some years, a class will get a particular concept no problem but the next year, the group will find it massively difficult so I then have to modify/replan.

With younger years, it's planning for different needs/abilities. What works for one child won't work for another. Or you do an activity one year and then improve it the year after.

A lot of my time is spent on admin/management work as well as I hold a promoted post.

Because things do change every year.
Because the children we teach are individuals with their own needs so we have to work out the best way to reach them.
Because if you constantly re-used the same planning your teaching would probably get stale and dull.

@hashtagbollocks

of the night it was in response to the sarky/ accusing comments to the OP. I think many teachers on here really aren't showing themselves in a good light over the last few months, Word of advice, when you do go back to work full time in school, don't go on strike because you really won't get much public support

I’ve been a teacher for 30 years. I think I’ve been on strike for 3 days of that - and I wouldn’t ignore Union instruction to strike. Teachers really don’t strike often.

The last time we went on strike, the staff decided to strike from 8.30 until 8.50 and from 3.15 onwards- so the children's learning wasn't interrupted!
Very militant🤔

@TabbyMumz

I think it depends what years you are teaching. I should imagine primary is easier than High school. I also imagine that after a few years, they are pretty fine tuned and able to change their tactic depending on the children. I cant imagine its hours and hours worth of planning. Teachers at our primary would arrive 8.30 ish and leave mostly by 4.

You missed out "and take home bags of books to mark at home, which they work on before then rejigging lessons and potentially completely replanning new lessons based on assessment from that day."

You also forgot "and then turn on the laptop at home to write reports / enter data / print out resources which then require laminating and cutting out, with appropriate levels of differentiation."

And "in order to get to the shop to buy resources/ingredients for the next day's lessons."

Seriously, after all this time in lockdown have you not grasped the fact that working from home can happen?!

and I wouldn’t ignore Union instruction to strike
even if you disagreed with what they were proposing striking over?

At our university we assume that our hourly paid lecturers will need to do 3 hours of work for every paid hour of contact time so that a payment of £45 an hour will end up being around £15ph. New hourly paid lecturers usually work more like 4 hrs per contact hour and experienced ones more like 2 to 2.5 . None of them work less than 2 hours for every hour taught ( assuming they are doing marking)

I imagine teaching in schools is similar. For every hour you teach, I imagine there is at least another hour ( possibly more) of preparation, making and admin associated with that hour of teaching . So in that scenario.20 hours of teaching would be 40 hours of work.

"30 kids x 3 pieces of work per day = 90 books to mark"

The numbers just dont add up. At parents evening, after weeks and weeks in school, 3 pieces of written work a day, youd expect to see hundreds of pieces of work in their books. It just isnt there.

And seriously, for some of the written assignments it might be 5 lines of work for primary. Wouldnt take long to mark that.

Do all 30 kids actually do the work? I think I can count on one hand the number of pieces of homework I actually turned in when I was at school!

This is one of the stupidest questions I've ever seen on mumsnet

30 kids x 3 pieces of work per day = 90 books to mark"
The numbers just dont add up. At parents evening, after weeks and weeks in school, 3 pieces of written work a day, youd expect to see hundreds of pieces of work in their books. It just isnt there

I imagine the 3 pieces of work per days is 3 different classes so done by 90 children. The children in each class will have done 1 piece of work but the teacher has to mark all 90 of them . You do realise a secondary school teacher usually teaches more than one class per subject per day?

If a teacher is worth their salt they will look at their plans frequently. They could have planned a lesson on measuring the perimeter of a shape one day and then look at area the next day. But after the maths lesson on the first day they realise the children haven't mastered measuring the perimeter yet, so no point moving onto area until mastered perimeter. So their plans need to be amended. Or half the class get it, so need to start differentiating the work. Or only a few pupils struggle with the concept, so they will plan some intervention work for the teaching assistant to do with that group (if they are lucky enough to have a TA) so that will need planning.

Then factor in all the other subjects a Primary teacher has to teach in a day/week and then you can see why they take so long planning, sorting out resources etc.

Now think about how it is going to be when all the children go back in September and how they are going to have to work out where all the children are in their learning and devise plans so all the children can catch up where required, and you can bet that not one child will be in the same position in all subjects as any other child.

"I imagine the 3 pieces of work per days is 3 different classes so done by 90 children. The children in each class will have done 1 piece of work but the teacher has to mark all 90 of them . You do realise a secondary school teacher usually teaches more than one class per subject per day?,"

No we are talking primary here, so one class of 30 kids all day. The teachers dont move to another class. Some people on here are trying to claim they have 90 pieces of work to mark every night. But they forget parents get to see their childs work, and that level of work is just not there. if you are lucky there might be 5 pieces of work per book. If they are doing 3 pieces of written work per day that's 15 pieces of work a week. Where is it?

In English books, maths books, history/ geography books, science books, RE books, PSHE books, grammar and spelling books, phonics books and probably several other books too. We have daily maths- all to be marked, daily English, again all to be marked but might be in English book, grammar book or spelling book and either history, science, RE etc usually once a week. So most days would be English and maths to mark, then 2-3 days with one other subject too.

But why explain when either your school is clearly crap on so many levels or all the teachers on here are liars!

I know I’ve bitten but there are two posters on here making goady posts for reactions. Must be pretty unsatisfied and insecure in their own lives to feel the need to do this.

@TabbyMumz

"And seriously, trotting out what time they leave? You know that many do their planning and assessment at home, surely?"

Not when they half a day planning factored into their working week, no. Or did you think most parents done know this?

Do you honestly think you can do all the required planning/marking/meetings/reports in half a day?

English, Maths and Spellings every day.

Science, Art, Music, Geography/History/Topic etc etc throughout the week.

@hashtagbollocks

and I wouldn’t ignore Union instruction to strike even if you disagreed with what they were proposing striking over?

This is how unionism works. You join a union and they fight for you. When they call a ballot for strike action, members take a vote. If they vote to strike you should all strike. The power of a Union is in collective action.

I think most people don't get this these days. We aren't as unionised as we used to be. We are not like France!

Many teachers don't strike when their unions call them to. I have a rather dim view of this, although I understand the quandary. There have only been 2 one day actions since I have been teaching and for one I really needed to be in an important meeting for the sake of a vulnerable child, so I donated a day's salary to the NUT (as was) for that day.

Unions are really important.

We get to see ALL those books. That's my point. There isnt enough work for primary teachers to be doing hours and hours of marking every night. As I've said some pieces of work will be 5 lines of work, where a child had to pick the right word so 5 ticks and a "well done" required. That would take literally half a minute to mark. Plus in class, as some children are quicker than others to finish, the teacher will be able to quickly mark their work even before the class is finished.

@TabbyMumz

We get to see ALL those books. That's my point. There isnt enough work for primary teachers to be doing hours and hours of marking every night. As I've said some pieces of work will be 5 lines of work, where a child had to pick the right word so 5 ticks and a "well done" required. That would take literally half a minute to mark. Plus in class, as some children are quicker than others to finish, the teacher will be able to quickly mark their work even before the class is finished.

You've got this all wrapped up. You should write a book.

Well who knew that all teachers are shit at time management!

(Also - change your child's school. They clearly aren't doing enough written work. That's not good. What are you going to do about it?)

I do feel sorry for you having to send your children to such a dreadful school. Such a pity.

Tick tick tick & “well done”!

No two stars and a wish? No spelling corrections? No stretch goals?

@Lilybet1980

I think you’ll find that accountants and lawyers are constantly being scrutinised about how they spend their time, by their clients. They want to know exactly what they are paying for and how that translates into value for money.

It’s not the same at all but teachers do have clients of sorts. It’s the students and the parents. So of course parents have an interest in what teachers do.

I think the other aspect is that from what I can tell teaching, like many professions, has changed significantly over the years. If I think back to when I was at school, all my friends with teacher parents would head off to France or somewhere for the 6 week holiday. Yet now many teachers end up spending a good few weeks of their summer holidays planning. I don’t think it was like that 30 years ago.

I was teaching 30 years ago, so I concur. But that’s when the rot set in. It’s got steadily worse since, so I’ve taken my pension early (55) at a loss because it’s just not tenable. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy now and couldn’t support a relative or friend training. And when you think about this, remember that I still love being in the classroom and will miss that aspect of the job.

No, they clearly don't have to mark properly at TabbyMumz' school, such a pity for her.