To think that teachers should be able to distinguish BAME students by name?

[maggiethecat]

I have 2 DDs at different secondary schools and we have recently been having animated table discussions arising from the BLM protests. Both girls separately experienced teachers repeatedly confusing their names with the handful of other BAME students in the class. 13 yo DD cannot understand why she is repeatedly confused with another BAME girl who is much taller than her and unlike DD wears glasses. Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

In my workplace, my department consists of 12 women, of whom only 2 are BAME (same country), I am one of them. The rest are white.
My manager regularly mixes up only these 2 names, never ever the others. It’s definitely a race thing - she associates both of us into a single group. Leaves me with the feeling that the 2 of us aren’t seen as individuals in our own right.
I have never made a big thing out if it, the manager is a lovely person and doesn’t mean it maliciously. But it does grate after a while of this continuously happening.
So I agree OP- it’s racial.

YANBU, and I speak as a teacher who has gone to considerable effort to ensure that I was as quick and confident with students' names from diverse cultures as I was with my own. I have cringed my way through my fair share of prizegivings where the students' full Nigerian names have been absolutely mangled (or that pause when the reader looks at the name and silently braces themselves).

However - I once taught a class with five Emilys. They were all very clever, very quiet, and all had identical long brown hair. They rarely spoke up in class so I couldn't easily get to know them by their personalities. In the end I had to use their handwriting as a means of getting to know them well enough to distinguish them. It was probably Easter before I was absolutely confident.

I'm not saying it isn't the case but I work in education also, classes of anywhere from 20 to 30 per group.

Due to my role I meet usually 30ish new groups within 2 weeks each academic year.

I mix up names of everyone whatever their ethnicity. I particularly struggled in a group with Caitlyn, Katelyn, Katie, Courtney, Ellie Mae, Elli Rose... Although generally I'm worse with boys

Of course it’s racist.
What other excuse is there?

I’m mixed race and I don't necessarily think it's a race thing either. But maybe that's just the half white side of me with no clue talking

The fact that it’s repeated and therefore no particular effort in getting it right makes it so.

My daughter has an uncommon name. It is easy to read, easy to say, but it is uncommon.
One of her teachers said it wrong every time. For years. Other students would correct her. My daughter corrected her the first dozen times, but then gave up.
They were the same race, so not racially motivated.
But so so rude, and lazy.

YANBU to say teachers should get your children's names right. And it may be a race thing for those staff - we (and you) can't know.

But you are BU to ignore all the posters giving you many examples of mix ups and saying that it just happens sometimes regardless of race, and saying we are all either blind, racist or apologist. It seems (rightly or not) that you came on here with the mindset that staff are institutionally racist towards BAME students either consciously or not. And you won't listen to others saying that may not be so. Not everything is about race.

Regardless of race, every teacher should get names correct. Sometimes it's harder than others. But as professionals (and decent human beings) you make an extra effort with those you muddle. It's just rude not to, and must make pupils feel like they don't matter. I have a name similar to (but not) a very common British name. I am constantly called by the other name, all through school and now in work too. It's annoying but you roll your eyes and get on with it.

As to the poster saying white people can't experience racism...what a load of bollocks! Totally context dependent. You may as well say "it's not possible for men to experience domestic violence." It absolutely is possible, but far less likely.

Mixing names up in the beginning of the school year, sure, understandable with a cohort of new pupils.
Mixing names up several months into the school year is downright lazy and disrespectful.

I don't think it's racist but it's definitely a type of microaggression.

We can’t possibly definitively say 100% the intent behind the confusion is racist. To echo some of my fellow teachers on here, my biggest teaching group at secondary school had 36 students in it. I pride myself on having a good memory and learning everyone’s name as quickly as I can, but everyone has an off day. In 18 years, I’ve had a few off days - I’ve accidentally called a girl by her brother’s name, I’ve accidentally mixed up two boys who sat with each other (different in every way you can imagine) and I even called one of my students ‘mum’ when I was worried about my mum in hospital. People are fallible. Not to dismiss what OP’s daughters have experienced, but they may not notice when this happens with other students as it’s so common and, typically, there’s so much more happening in the classroom.

Theres been quite a lot of research on how people find it hard to 'tell the difference' between people of other races to themselves. That doesnt make it ok but its a known thing. In a way the fact its so well known means people with power should make more effort.

I’m afraid it’s laziness. There is less value in learning BAME names for some because people will think they’ll be excuses as it’s ‘foreign’.

In my place of work there are two Asian women, myself and one other. I am forever being called by her name. It doesn't happen to anyone else. I understand what OP is saying.

Tyranttoddler

but I don't believe that white people can experience racism

Ah yes, 'the new I'm not racist but' statement.

@FrippEnos

Tyranttoddler

but I don't believe that white people can experience racism

Ah yes, 'the new I'm not racist but' statement.

Ey?

I don't think it's racist thing. You can see the difference easily within your own race. So white teacher maybe able to recognise the face of white children better. My ds has been called a name of the girl from similar heritage. He just laughs and correct teacher. He doesn't seems to resent it, just find it funny.

Give over! Jeez, my son’s teacher used to be always mixing his name up with another blond child in his class. And, btw, teacher was mixed race. It happens. Find something else to focus your angst on.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a race thing. My son was constantly mixed up with two other blond boys as they had similar hair cuts. My daughter was often mixed up with her friend because they both had long hair and glasses even though one was blonde and the other had light brown hair. In a school of 1000+ pupils it must be hard for teachers to keep track.

It is racism, the op has said it doesn't happen with the white children. It will have got to a point where her dd was specifically paying attention to see if it did.

My children are mixed race. I'll never forget opening the folder when my eldest finished nursery to find some pictures of the only other Indian boy in the class in there instead of my child. Apparently they were difficult to tell apart.

They had different skin tone, hair, build and the other child wore glasses. I'm sure MN will find a way to excuse it as not a race issue.

If it’s only your child and of course the other child this happens to I’d be going into the school! Chances are the other students are noticing it as well. Not on at all.

I mostly teach white students. Maori, Pasifika, and various Asian students are in the minority at my school. I definately mix up the white identikit Josh/Jake/Joseph/Bella/Ella/Aria more than the non-white.

When I taught a class in a school It took me ages to remember any of their names. They were all very different in their appearance, I’m just not good at names.

It is 100% a race bias (unconscious!)

To overcome that DH deliberately learns their names in class - forces himself to focus on their difference

If you're not aware of your prejudice then you can't overcome it 🤷‍♀️

@Cameila

In my workplace, my department consists of 12 women, of whom only 2 are BAME (same country), I am one of them. The rest are white. My manager regularly mixes up only these 2 names, never ever the others. It’s definitely a race thing - she associates both of us into a single group. Leaves me with the feeling that the 2 of us aren’t seen as individuals in our own right. I have never made a big thing out if it, the manager is a lovely person and doesn’t mean it maliciously. But it does grate after a while of this continuously happening. So I agree OP- it’s racial.

This happens to me too! One of 2 BAME in the workplace, and our boss continually mixes up our names. They are not similar names either and we don't look alike - it's just that we are both not white.

MN never like to admit people are operating on racial bias, but it's pretty obvious when you're on the receiving end and no one else's names get mixed up, just us BAME people.

I suspect there are multiple things going on. As others have said, there is research that suggests people from different ethnicities pay less or more attention to particular features when recognising people. So, if you're white, you may pay particular attention to eye and hair colour. If you're black, you may pay attention to skin tone. Article here that explains in more depth.

Alongside this, in general, it's easier to remember things that you are familiar with. So people generally find it easier to remember a familiar name than one they have never heard before. In the first situation, they only have to remember the name and link it to the person. In the second, they also have to remember unfamiliar sounds, so the cognitive load is larger. So if you have a teacher who is not familiar with names from different cultures, they may struggle.

And in addition, you will have individual variance between people ability to recognise faces and recognise names which could also be a factor. I haven't taught for a while, but when I did I taught about 300 kids each week. I learnt most kids names, but in every class there were 2 or 3 kids I constantly confused. (All white). I've no idea why. I don't think I'm great with faces in general and my dd has a great deal of problems with this - she can't recognise people who have been in her class for the last 5 years and can't follow TV programs because she can't recognise the different characters.

And you may also have some people who are just twatty and make a point of saying things like "everyone from X group looks the same". But I suspect most teachers who have difficulty are probably mortified instead of unapologetic.