To think that teachers should be able to distinguish BAME students by name?

[maggiethecat]

I have 2 DDs at different secondary schools and we have recently been having animated table discussions arising from the BLM protests. Both girls separately experienced teachers repeatedly confusing their names with the handful of other BAME students in the class. 13 yo DD cannot understand why she is repeatedly confused with another BAME girl who is much taller than her and unlike DD wears glasses. Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

I'm a TA and I forget some of my students names all the time especially at the beginning of New Years or intakes. I have two boys I teach who I have had for three years and I still mix they're names up. I can't help it.

Sometimes it is just human nature and an honest mistake. I can't speak for they why but maybe a conversation with that specific staff member would give more of a clearer reason that quess work

In every class I teach there are at least one pair that I mix up. It usually is just one pair per class, and they often look nothing like each other, but they were possibly sitting next to each other on the first day, or both wore the same hairband, or both have short blond hair. For me, it would never be a race thing, but I've also never taught a class with 2 BAME children in because I've only ever taught in areas that are almost entirely white (because that's where I've grown up, not because I specifically chose white areas). I do understand that each pair of kids I mix up will think it's something to do with their appearance, but it's genuinely me having a crossed wire in my memory.

For other teachers it might be a race thing. There are racist teachers around, just the same as there are racist people in many other professions. It's awful, and children should not have to put up with it, particularly from their teachers who are supposed to be trusted adults! I hope things are changing and racist views are less acceptable now than they were when I was growing up, but I don't know if I'm actually correct with that or if it's just wishful thinking.

Zombie why is it an odd time given the context of the recent protests? She's not back at school but was discussing her recalled experiences of being treated differently.

MsAwesomeDragon - I am not even suggesting that there is any malicious intent in any of this. But perhaps unconsciously disregarding the girls' individuality?

@safariboot that’s really interesting, it reminds me of when my boss was mugged in Hong Kong, he was asked for a description and his first attempt was ‘he had brown eyes and dark hair.’ Apparently the police were not impressed at all.

Yes OP, we had students from so many different countries and from my recollection the teachers knew us all well. They went above and beyond for us.

I thought it was well known that people of one race have more difficulty telling apart people of a different race. The cross-race effect. It's not specific to a white teacher and black students.

Funny how the BAME people at my workplace can spell and remember non-BAME names well then . I’m afraid it’s laziness. There is less value in learning BAME names for some because people will think they’ll be excuses as it’s ‘foreign’.

FFS. I get my own children’s names mixed up on a daily basis. I don’t stand much of a chance with the 150 kids I teach weekly. Sod all to do with race and everything to do with getting older.

Is it laziness or is it a lack of exposure?

For instance BAME grow up around more common sounding names exposed to it in classes and such from young. Where as others may not be. I grew up in a very white area, and was quite sheltered in the terms of those BAME people whom I did come into contact with had very typical sounding and spelling names. Which in turn I could easily remember.

It wasn't until I started teaching disadvantaged youths (majority being BAME) that I came into contact with other names and had to get used to pronunciation and spellings. There are some students names who try as I might I still can not spell in the right way.

Let’s get this straight, this is not about people who mix up any and all names, this is about only mixing up BAME names. And those are the names that you should be playing MUCH closer attention to if you’re unfamiliar with them. No excuses.

It’s a good lesson to students too. I work for a corporate company and negotiate with and manage partner relations. Mispronouncing names and spelling them incorrectly is totally unacceptable. I would be given short shrift.

Interesting that the OP is complaining about people getting her DDs names wrong yet has misspelt Gulabjamoon's name as Gulamjamoon in her reply
Shows how easy it is to confuse names

Not interesting at all @CalmYoBadSelf. Just like the teachers shouldn’t be criticised for poor SPAG on posts on MN. They’re off duty. As is OP.
Thought that’s quite obvious?

There is evidence that people more easily distinguish between people that they are more exposed to, so someone who predominantly sees one set of features (eg European) finds it easier to tell different individuals apart from that same group. However, an individual can choose whether to accept that learned bias or teach themselves to work against it and become more aware of other groups.
I used to work with a woman from Nigeria. She could tell very easily if someone was from the same nation as her (Igbo) or from a neighboring nation.
However, I make sure to learn the names of all my pupils and if there are any who are similar looking or if there's a name I'm new to, I make sure I learn those names asap. If I only made that effort with the white kids I would be acting in a racist way.

Howabouanewname - so explain why the confusion largely and repeatedly affects only one group of students?

Clayfray - dd has a French spelt name and is confused with girls with Asian sounding names. I could better accept Howabouanewname's point if DD, given her name, had her name confused with the names of white classmates but that never happens.
Also, I'm not talking about spelling names but rather being able to identify a girl by her correct name.

Another one here who gets her own DC muddled up.

I had a teacher at school who called me Danielle for the best part of 5 years (my name is not Danielle)
And 2 or 3 teachers who often got mine and best friends surnames the wrong way round.
I am white. As was best friend. And the girl who's name was Danielle.

Calmyobadself - it is easy to try to use my mis spelling Gulabjamoon's name to justify the teachers' bias or plain lack of care.

@Howaboutanewname

FFS. I get my own children’s names mixed up on a daily basis. I don’t stand much of a chance with the 150 kids I teach weekly. Sod all to do with race and everything to do with getting older.

Exactly this

If you watch the Babies documentary on Netflix, there is an episode where a researcher found that if babies aren't exposed to people of different races throughout babyhood (and beyond), they lose the ability to distinguish between people of races other than their own (or at least the one they are surrounded by), which they are initially very good at.

So it's probably an indication that those teachers were not raised in a diverse environment. People need to be aware of this though, so they can overcome it - it obviously isn't impossible (even if someone has prosopagnosia they can use other cues), but they should be making the effort.

@maggiethecat it happens. Sadly it does. It shouldn't but teachers can teach anything up to 130 different kids in a week. They also come into contact with the whole school base add that to old pupils that have long since left and may look, sound, or have a similar vibe it can be easily done.

I'm only suggesting that it'S likely not malicious. If there is no other issues I'd just say that it's an honest mistake, if there is other issues then approach the school for answers

Teacher here. I am bad with names. Every year there will be a class with two children that I mix up because even though they done really look very similar. Usually they will have the same hair style. I will have every other name down apart from those two and it will get to a point that I'm genuinely anxious about saying there name because I'll think "ok that's Luke, but I always get Luke and Liam mixed up so it must be Liam" and then I'll call them Liam and it'll turn out it was Luke after all. Actually managed to do that at a parents evening once. Was incredibly embarrassing.

I can't answer for your situation whether your child's teacher is being racist or not, I'd probably be rather annoyed if it was happening with my child because I'd want the teacher to know them well as an individual.

@ClaryFray - try over 200 in any given week. And as a core subject teacher I see less than for example a geography teacher who may teach every class they have only once or twice a week and could well see 300+

Clayfray - I said upthread that I didn't think it was malicious but when my dd recalled this (as did her sister who is at a different school) she sounded exasperated at its occurrence. Surely as others have said it's worth taking the time to learn girls names if you recognise your repeat mistakes if only so that the girls can feel that you consider them important enough to learn their names.

How is a 13 yo back at school? Seems an odd time to be making this post.

Can you please repost the list of the times BAME people are allowed to post? I've lost my copy.

Report to the School Head.

I think there are multiple factors in play.

Some teachers are just crap at remembering names and faces in general (some people are just “face blind”.
Some teachers are completely lazy about it and simply can’t be arsed (these are the ones who don’t even try to pronounce it right and don’t fix it when corrected).
Some teachers almost never get any students or names mixed up (I’m one of these luckily)

Even then I’ve had one pair of boys in particular who I taught for a few years and I just could not fix my mixing up of the two! I felt terribly guilty about it any time it was obvious.
James and Philip didn’t look massively similar but got mixed up in my head because they had incredibly similar personalities; they were both exceptional students who were quite precocious, serious thinkers who were always polite and well spoken. They were remarkable in the exact same way 👌

I’m sorry though that it is happening at all OP. It’s shitty and it isn’t good enough x

Of course it's not ok. I am a teacher and it is natural to sometimes mix up kid's names, but teachers need to make an effort not just to lump all Asian kids together or all black kids together. In the Michelle Obama documentary Becoming, I remember an Asian girl complaining that she often felt invisible at school. It's this unconscious bias that is a huge problem. Teachers need to try harder. They need to do better.