To think that teachers should be able to distinguish BAME students by name?

[maggiethecat]

I have 2 DDs at different secondary schools and we have recently been having animated table discussions arising from the BLM protests. Both girls separately experienced teachers repeatedly confusing their names with the handful of other BAME students in the class. 13 yo DD cannot understand why she is repeatedly confused with another BAME girl who is much taller than her and unlike DD wears glasses. Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

Great 3 posts above! 👍🏼

Look how many people jump to defend accusations of racism.

I hope they are as quick to support victims of racism too.

@PotteryLottery

Sadly usually there is just a complicit silence.

I now understand why so many black Mumsnetters refuse to comment on race threads.

I mean that generally, of course, it’s great to see the support from some people on this thread 👍🏼

@spillthetea you not white then? You certainly sound entitled and part of the alll lives matter brigade, bet you 'don't see colour' do you?

@HeLa1

My parents gave me a traditional English name to prevent this and yet I was constantly mixed up with the other black or sometimes even Asian children.

Of course some white children were also mixed up but for the white children, they either looked alike (same hair colour, eye colour, make up style etc) or were very close friends.

Also, it went beyond mixing up names, I would be given the other black girl's work, told off when she did something wrong, my work I labelled with my own name would even sometimes have comments like good work "other girl's name". It really made me hate the subject that teacher taught.

This is absolutely appalling, no excuse for this at all. Should have been disciplinary for that teacher, how awful to have not been distinguished as a person.

Maggiethecat - yes, I read all your posts. No, I am not gaslighting you and don't appreciate the implication that I am deliberately trying to undermine.

Along with many others, I am saying your conclusions may be right, may be wrong, and that mix ups happen for many reasons to all sorts of people. Sometimes it's similarities in names, sometimes similarities in appearance (not necessarily skin colour either, as evidenced by multiple other posters) to another child either within that class or in a class taught in other schools/previous years. I simply said you can't assume it's racism.

Not really sure what I have done wrong here.

People on here seem more concerned about the inference of the teacher being racist rather than her acknowledging that there is an issue and dealing with it.

Well, yes. Because you are claiming that she is, whether consciously or not. And you are not listening to people saying "hold on, here are also some other reasons this may be happening." Noone is saying you are definitely wrong, yet you are adamant you have the only possible explanation.

Why should she acknowledge there is an issue relating to racism when there may not be? The issue she should acknowledge is that she confuses Child A and Child B's names. Child A and Child B have a right to be annoyed she gets their names wrong. But is it a coincidence that these are BAME pupils? Possibly. Possibly not. If it is only ever BAME pupils then yes, she should think about that and make steps to change. But we just don't know...and nor do you.

OP said is going to raise it with the school @Lancre. She hasn’t said she is going to accuse the teacher of being racist.

YANBU OP. Clearly it is not always a race thing but in this example it seems like a very strong possibility. Isn’t it a bit like those people on an everyday sexism thread who say “no one ever cat called ME in the streets, are you sure you’re not mistaken??”. Ugh.

Yes exactly Comtesse !

I hope it goes well with the school op I hope they shall listen to your concerns and address the issue. I would have thought most people who work in education have more awareness

@Lancrelady - But you are BU to ignore all the posters giving you many examples of mix ups and saying that it just happens sometimes regardless of race, and saying we are all either blind, racist or apologist. It seems (rightly or not) that you came on here with the mindset that staff are institutionally racist towards BAME students either consciously or not. And you won't listen to others saying that may not be so. Not everything is about race

Perhaps you can point out where I've suggested that those of a different opinion are blind, racist or apologist. I would say that you have a particular mindset about me and have not really paid attention to what I have actually said.

I can only go off the experience my DD tells me in respect of this teacher and it seems clear to me that the teacher or anyone else (whether at work, school, play) who finds themselves repeatedly confusing only BAME people need to examine how/why and work on doing better. I am not referring to people who muddle up everyone's names.

I agree, not everything is about race but there are many instances when racial attitudes inform behaviour. I can understand that many white people will feel defensive around these conversations but I believe I, like many others, am not trying to demonise white people. We are saying these attitudes are very much present in society. Be aware of it, have these honest conversations, perhaps first with yourself, and others. Do the work, do better.

It does give hope that there are so many on here that recognise the issue and in some cases have stepped up when they've found themselves on the wrong foot.

@Lancrelady80 - Noone is saying you are definitely wrong, yet you are adamant you have the only possible explanation.

It's clear that you have a mindset about me - you're adamant that I'm saying that the teacher is racist and nothing I say will change your view of that.

It is all too easy to dismiss the concerns of BAME students and regard them as being too sensitive by citing that other students suffer the same problem

Totally agree. But who here has said the girls are being too sensitive?

Cadent, I know she isn't going to accuse teacher outright of being racist. But she has done on here, by inference as acknowledged by her own post. And it is how the school will hear it too.

OP, once again: if it is ONLY ever BAME pupils then yes it is an issue. If it is, it needs looking at. Noone disagrees.

But you do seem to have been ignoring any one else's experiences/alternative explanations, accusing posters of classic mumsnet blindness (apologies if that wasn't you, but it's certainly been said) and of gaslighting.

I am glad you agree that not everything is about race, just as I agree that sometimes it is.

And btw...who said I am white?!

"We" was referring to the many posters saying similar things to me.

Thanks EnthusiasmisDisturbed. I think many schools will be looking at racial equality/diversity more closely now. A lot of the awareness will even be driven by young people in schools who are, because of social media and the times we live in, probably more socially conscious than previous generations.
Like climate change and many other issues the younger ones will be the ones to drive real change.

If attributing other people's posts to me (albeit apologising if she's mistakenly done so but not actually checking ) and insisting that I am accusing the teacher of being racist and that I acknowledge that I've done that by inference (when?) - if that isn't gaslighting then I don't know what is!

Its likely related to race, but not in a bad way! If you have a minority of children, lets say for arguments sake 2 black children in a class of 25, its absolutely understandable that you're likely to make the subconscious error of occasionally mixing the two names up. its not racist its how the human subconscious mind works.

It would be highly unlikely that a teacher was being racist.

I agree maggiethecat the younger generation are at far more aware. When I hear ds and his friends talking I’m often struck by how they discuss social issues with such maturity (Y7) how aware they are of social issues and take on board that change is a good thing.

That it was the subconscious at work really doesn’t excuse a teacher only getting BAME pupils names confused it’s not acceptable to not see pupils as individuals (and neither is it at work or in social situations) I would be reprimanded (and no doubt laughed at) if I used that poor excuse at work

My kids get called the wrong name by teachers all the time, they are white! They have even had negative points added to there online account meant for other children, by teachers who have taught them for years. It happens I don't feel it's exclusively a BAME thing.

When I was a teacher I often found if I made a mistake once and the kids made a big deal I would continue to make the same mistake, in my head I would panic and think is it A or B I can’t remember! It was so annoying and I didn’t do it on purpose.

My two dds went to the same secondary school as my sister and I. Some of the teachers occasionally called them by either my name or my sisters name.

There are none so blind as those who won’t see.

I had this problem with two boys in my DS's year. Their names were completely different and they didn't look anything at all alike. But their mums did - so I kept associating the wrong child with the wrong mum.

It was embarrassing as it was a good few years before I got it right.
In the same class there were twins. Completely different physically - one a tall, slender blonde while the other short, very dark and stocky. My mind told me they were twins so I couldn't tell them apart.
It's not always conscious or malicious.