To think that teachers should be able to distinguish BAME students by name?

[maggiethecat]

I have 2 DDs at different secondary schools and we have recently been having animated table discussions arising from the BLM protests. Both girls separately experienced teachers repeatedly confusing their names with the handful of other BAME students in the class. 13 yo DD cannot understand why she is repeatedly confused with another BAME girl who is much taller than her and unlike DD wears glasses. Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

I find I'm more likely to mix up quiet, brown haired, white girls. (I'm white)

I think it's more because they are quiet and there's likely to be more of them with fairly common names.

Unusual names, or names where there's more than one way to say them, I note phonetically on the seating plan on the first day, so I'm more likely to remember them because I have to think about them more.

Even when I can name every child in a class I'd struggle to match the quiet white girls' photos to their names, it's like a mental block.

Theweepies read the op

It’s not happening to white students they are witnessing that

But carry on dismissing their experiences sadly it’s something many experience. Thankfully things are changing and many want things to change unfortunately some don’t as is evident on here

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed read the op. She ‘apparently’ doesn’t have this deficit with white students ‘in the class’ - op dd has no idea whether this happens in every other class the teacher teaches over her entire career and to which children.

Why are you ignoring the multiple posts from teachers saying they routinely muddle up children’s names? Why are you insisting that this teacher is racist?

A woman I know who is a teacher told me that half the boys in her form were called Joshua and the other half Daniel. Probably an exaggeration but I know what she meant.

I don't think the girls'experience is being dismissed. The suggestion that their experience may purely be a case of covert racism might be questionable. The only way to find out would be to ask the question to the individuals who seem to be mixing the girls up.

I am believing the girls experience

As I am all to well aware that it happens to many BAME people on a regular occurrence (including my dad and family) it’s made into a joke as it happens so often

And I am well aware their experiences are so often corrected and explained by white people

And some teachers on have have the awareness to understand that at times it’s happened and shouldn’t have

I have also myself admitted to unconscious bias

But carry on dismissing their experiences

Mixing up children’s names is not inherently racist.

Continuing to mix up the names on the only two non-white children whilst getting all the other names right, then not bothering to correct this regular mistake demonstrates a major racial blind spot, a lack of empathy and a general indifference towards the two non-white students. It’s not good enough.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Oh I'm quite old and I know all about memory loss
Context is everything. This teacher's memory loss doesn't seem to happen with the white kids.

That in itself is quite a generalising and racist sweeping statement.

As I said initially, before reporting to head as has been suggested here for racism which could end this teachers career at least investigate whether the teacher has form for forgetting names and which students the teacher does this for.

I’m sorry thus doesn’t fit with your ‘don’t question a BAME person throw the teacher in jail for life’ narrative

@NotFrozen exactly!

I'm aware of unconscious bias and we get training on it regularly, particularly for grading exams this summer.

No one has said the teacher should be sacked

Just more awareness and I would expect that from a teacher

I would hope you would at least ASK around the school if that teacher is known for muddling up names as many teachers in this thread have said they do before ruining someone’s career

Its for the employer to investigate before terminating someone's employment, not the person complaining.

Pushing the responsibility for the outcome of any disciplinary investigation onto the victim is very wrong and discourages BAME people from complaining about the everyday racism they experience.

I think teachers do mix up routinely- I remember being pissed off at lazy reports where they had s/he options and they got the wrong ones. But, I don’t think the girls’ experiences should be discounted. If their perception is that it’s only the BAME children that are mixed up, I don’t know why some people are so quick to say they they must be wrong. That doesn’t necessarily mean conscious racism- it’s much more likely to be unconscious and accidental but it doesn’t mean the girls haven’t picked up on something them at is there.

Context is everything

Ah, the structural oppression-deniers' motto!

I'm massively surprised by the number of apologists here.
All these people have been talking about BLM and how white people are going to "do the work", posting pictures on SM of books they have been reading to educate themselves. And yet here is a prime example of white people making excuses to not learn BAME students names, even though many of them admit that they believe there is a proof that white people find it hard to distinguish between BAME people. DO THE WORK. Fgs. You know it's difficult, so try harder. It's a basic level of teaching to know pupils' names. I used to spend 10 or so minutes in each lesson for the first few weeks of the year playing name memory games with my pupils. They enjoyed testing me, and I learned the names quickly.

Whilst we are discussing this, I have to say, it is also jarring when a member of staff can't be bothered to learn common pronunciations which occur in BAME names of prevalent groups in their school. A Turkish child called Cem should not be continually called Kem instead of Gem, especially when there are many Turkish children in the school with the same sound in their names. Another example I can think of is Nigerian names - one of my form from years ago used to constantly tell me how white teachers pronounced her name (Jimoke) as Jim-oak, despite being corrected many times. It's not acceptable.
Names are so important. They are tied in with our identity. Slaves had their names taken from them. Even more recently many immigrants felt they had to change their "difficult" foreign names when coming to Europe and the US.

The right to their name is enshrined in children's rights. Again - do the work.

Sadly I’m not surprised at all, *chienloup’. Plus ça change...

And yet here is a prime example of white people making excuses to not learn BAME students names

You clearly can't read. No one has said they don't learn BAME students names. They have said they find remembering ALL names difficult.

Frankly wasting 10 minutes of time every lesson learning names isn't someone I'd want teaching in my school.

It’s not about learning names though is it. It’s about being able to recognise faces.

What colour are the teachers? Does a black teacher mix up the names of black students? (or white students for that matter?) It’s a race related issue in that the cross-race effect applies, but I wouldn’t call it racism (which is intentional discrimination).

@Hercwasonaroll I sincerely hope you’re not a teacher. If you are I pity your students.

@Hercwasonaroll

And yet here is a prime example of white people making excuses to not learn BAME students names

You clearly can't read. No one has said they don't learn BAME students names. They have said they find remembering ALL names difficult.

Frankly wasting 10 minutes of time every lesson learning names isn't someone I'd want teaching in my school.

Wasting! It's wasting time to learn children's names? To treat them as individuals?

YOU clearly can't read. I didn't say every lesson. I said every lesson for the first few weeks. Relationships are so important in teaching and the foundation of all our work, surely!?

@Gulabjamoon I am, why wouldn't you want me teaching? Because I want students to spend time learning, not playing games so I remember their names?

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@Gulabjamoon I am, why wouldn't you want me teaching? Because I want students to spend time learning, not playing games so I remember their names?[/quote]

If you need to spend 10 minutes EVERY lesson to learn children’s names then you just be a extraordinarily incompetent teacher @Hercwasonaroll