To think that teachers should be able to distinguish BAME students by name?

[maggiethecat]

I have 2 DDs at different secondary schools and we have recently been having animated table discussions arising from the BLM protests. Both girls separately experienced teachers repeatedly confusing their names with the handful of other BAME students in the class. 13 yo DD cannot understand why she is repeatedly confused with another BAME girl who is much taller than her and unlike DD wears glasses. Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

I've had experience of this, from the teacher's position, and although I would have expected to have known all of the names of the children I taught, especially once a few months into a term, I have to say it can be really difficult when you have different classes of 30+ kids coming in and out of your room every hour. Teaching literally hundreds of kids, some for just a few hours a week, and with new kids added every year can be challenging.

Are your daughter's names fairly popular? I recall lots of staff room conversations in which we had to clarify between 'Big Kieran' or 'Funny Aaron' or 'Chatty Amelia', or having to constantly use full names - it's so hard when you have loads of kids with the same name!

I would encourage your daughters to assert themselves and politely correct the teacher when addressed incorrectly.

As for the BAME issue, I would hope this is incidental, rather than purposeful, but if your daughters are ever genuinely upset by it I would drop an email to their head of year.

There are several women MPs who are routinely mis identified in Parliamentary debates. Though , as they point out, it doesn't happen to white female MPs, even those with similar builds, similar hairstyles............

Do the teachers who are not Caucasian get everyone's name correct, every time?

I'm sure it isn't deliberate just too many things going on all the time

I was always mixed up with the only other Asian girl in my 99.9% white school.

We were interchangeable despite only having our skin colour in common looks wise.

That was 30 years ago.

Now my son is 1 of 2 half Asian boys in his class and they are also apparently the same person. The teacher has sent out the other boy to me numerous times. Because he is quite dark you see and his mum is white. So he must be mine. My son says he is always called by this others boys name.

Nothing changes. And it never will. This is just how it is.

Theweepies

The constant dismisal of the op’s daughters experience BAME get their experiences explained to them by white people all the time how they have got it wrong

Your husband mixing up names is not the same as two pupils being called the other pupils name because they are from the same ethnic background. It’s really not hat hard to understand if you want to see it

But many don’t and prefer to decide that BAME experiences are not valid and that they have misunderstood

As we have seen on his thread over and over again

I have not read the whole thread, but would not name badges for students work ?

@chien that happened to me at parent evening i sat down said I am ds mum
Teacher sat there and looked at me totally blank , then looked through notes , then must of dawned on him who he wAs but he clearly had forgotten
My ds is very quiet so i put it down to this , other teachers have also called him his brothers name ( they dont look alike ) my nan goes through at least 6 names before she gets to mine ( sometimes even the dog name come first )
Teachers also make mistakes , unless there are other obvious reasons to believe these teachers are racist i would not assume they are on this incident alone , but bring up with teachers there concerns

mixing up names is not the same as two pupils being called the other pupils name because they are from the same ethnic background

Skin colour is one distinguishing feature though. Likewise, two girls may have red hair - one girl might be short, the other girl tall - but they both have red hair.

I’m sorry @EnthusiasmIsDisturbed but we don’t know the teacher has mixed up the names BECAUSE both girls are BAME. The ops daughter thinks that it’s only happening to her and no other students in the school. There is a big difference there.

Like I said if the two completely different women my DH mixed up were BAME they might think it’s because of their race. But it wouldn’t be. It’s a stupid mix up he has in his head even though they look nothing alike.

You are assuming it’s because both girls are BAME. As I said before this teacher could be muddling up tons of students names. How do you know the teacher isn’t doing this?

Its unacceptable of course it is, but then I distinctly remember this only happening with one teacher at school, and she mixed up two white girls constantly. They had similar hair in a similar cut. That was about it. No-one ever got me and the other mixed race girl confused.

If you want to accuse a teacher of racism - something that could lead them to lose their job I would hope you would at least ASK around the school if that teacher is known for muddling up names as many teachers in this thread have said they do before ruining someone’s career

@tyrantoddler why is it not the same
So it was ok for my sons teacher to call him his brothers name or for one to not even know him at all ? Because he's white its ok to not remember his name
Surely the issue is here if you have teacher who mix uo kids as happens and it can vary as to which kids then its geniune if you have teacher that only mixes up black children and never any others that may be a bigger issue

Of course it is a racist thing if the teacher only ever mixes up the BAME students.

I struggle with names and put a lot of effort in to learning them at the start of a year. I will, occasionally, still mix up names but it tends to be the incredibly common names I mix up (eg Will and Alex) or else I forget entirely. The kids tend to understand because they also see when I forget other nouns regularly (eg "board marker" or "calculator").

Everyone is human, but if you find you are only mixing up names of students from particular minority ethnic groups it probably is worth doing some reflection as to the reasons.

YANBU. This happened to me at school. Once I was almost removed from school grounds due to a case of mistaken identity!!! I had to stand my ground and insist said teacher come and see me to be sure as I knew I hadn't done what they said. She quickly acknowledges it wasn't me - no apology. Wish blm had happened in my teens.

@Theweepies

If you want to accuse a teacher of racism - something that could lead them to lose their job I would hope you would at least ASK around the school if that teacher is known for muddling up names as many teachers in this thread have said they do before ruining someone’s career

You’ve said this better than I could. I’ve been confused with another Asian girl in my year many times as a girl. We were same height and had similar hair length. But the teacher who constantly confused us was horrible with names anyway. It wasn’t just limited to ethnic minorities. This teacher was a black man btw. So it’s a myth that it’s always white people forgetting names.

I think it’s unfair to expect all teachers to have a good memory for names. You can be a good teacher or good at any profession and have a bad memory for names. It’s just not a talent that everyone has.

Apparently the offending teachers do not have this memory deficit with white students in the class

I’m really sorry that your DDs feel singled out for name blindness by a teacher. It is a horrible thought to have to consider that a mistake like that could come from a racist place. And maybe it is prompted by racism, but maybe it’s not. Are their teachers behaving in any way racist in other ways? In which case that should be tackled by the school.

But simply misremembering names can happen for so many reasons. How could your DDs actually know that this does not also happen for their teachers‘ other kids too, in other classes? (whatever the ethnicity of the kids) I don’t think it’s very emotionally helpful to assume that it’s happening because a teacher is racist if there is not other racist behaviour from the teacher.

I call my partner my child’s name, I call my child my sisters name, my mum calls her children by each other’s name, call my sister my child’s name. It’s endless, non malicious and means nothing. I notice it happens more when we are tired, stressed, distracted. Teachers could be doing the same thing.
Or your DDs could be right of course. The real question is what is their overall experience of the teachers who do this?

One teacher at my school kept mixing me up with another girl name wise. I’m white and very tall, she was mixed race (Chinese and British) and tiny....out names started with the same letter but she had a chinese name and I have a predominantly American name

@Gulabjamoon

There is wilful refusal to understand the issue here from some. Usual MN blindness.

This

OP I am sorry your dd experience this at school it must be a horrible devaluing experience.

I can’t understand why, despite so many people posting their own personal experiences, that posters say it’s nothing to do with colour. It sounds like the BAME students are not seen as individuals and to send that message to young people is awful. For your daughters it must be horrid thinking that tgat is how your teachers see you and for white pupils it just reinforces a sense of privilege.

I would raise it with the school and hopefully they can invest in some staff training. I hope your daughters have a more positive experience when they return to school.

I got a WRONG child given to me during pick up. It’s embarrassing

Making a mistake once or twice is not a big deal. However if it keeps happening with the same teacher and the same two girls then I think there is a problem. The teacher should have made an effort to correct her mistake and to get it right after the first few times. The impact on the students is the message that they aren’t important, they’re invisible and their names aren’t worth remembering. It’s not good enough. If the teacher is so old, too forgetful, too lazy or too indifferent that he or she can’t get it right, then maybe it’s time for a career change. I would expect better for my children.

It sounds like the BAME students are not seen as individuals

Then nor are the blond children, the blue eyed children, the tall boys, the girls with glasses.... We all categorise people to help memorise them. Pronunciation issues are different but mixing up a name occasionally isn't racist.

And I do think it’s probably race related. We should all be listening to what the BLM movement is saying right now and a major part of the message is that white privilege often treats them as invisible. It has to stop now.

Well it could be racist or it could be completely innocent. I taught a class one year that contained a group of 4 friends who were all blond with practically the same hairstyles, similar heights, similar personalities and I constantly muddled up their names. I'm not saying the teacher isn't racist but likewise it might just be carelessness or lack of attention.

My dd is routinely mixed up with another girl in her class by a couple of her teachers. Both girls are fair-skinned with dark blonde hair of different lengths and not particularly similar. Do you think it might be simply that the teacher(s) just aren't that familiar with who's who?