To think 'cancel culture' is going way too far?

[Okeefe]

I've gone on twitter this morning to see #CancelKimmel trending, the reason.. he sang the N word when rapping a Snoop Dogg song in 1996.

Jenna Marbles being 'cancelled' due to doing blackface in a Nicki Minaj impression is 2011.

I swear every time I go on the internet, someone else is being 'cancelled'

People are digging up ancient tweets belonging to celebrities and normal people alike, searching for racist/problematic key words and contacting their employers, losing them their jobs and more often that not this content that they are 'cancelling' them for is historic

Are people not allowed to grow up? I'm pretty sure when I was in my early teens if I was singing along to a rap song, I would say the word like any other lyric. Would I now? No. Because I understand that it is offensive. Because I'm an adult now. Because times have changed.

I've had to quit twitter, it depresses me so much. You can't disagree with a word this woke generation say, or you too will be 'cancelled'.

The blackface and the N was wrong but so was society at the time for accepting it.

Really, blackface was acceptable in 2011? Okay.

The blackface and the N was wrong but so was society at the time for accepting it.

By society do you mean black people? Very victim blaming.

I detest 'cancel culture' which seems to be a way of not only refusing to engage with anyone who has opinions that differ from yours or has done something you disapprove of (which is fair enough and up to the individual) but an attempt to systematically destroy their lives because of it.

When I say 'something you disapprove of' and 'destroy their lives' I'm not talking about crimes and the workings of the justice system. I'm taking about different political views, approaches to life, sense of humour or opinions on any subject in general.

It's the ultimate in playing the man rather than the ball by people who can't explain the reasoning behind their own viewpoint, comprehend the reasons behind an alternative viewpoint and debate accordingly. It's the Idiot's Charter.

There's also a horrible irony in the sense that the baying 'Cancel' mob with nary an independent thought between them and a deep need for group approval is acting on exactly the same impulses as those who carried out the lynchings in the deep south or the witch burnings in Salem.

i basically ignore the cancel cuture on twitter they sound like kids bullying peoplejohnny depp was cancelled till people found out his ex was abusing him

people dont even look at the facts first

Jonathan Ross still around and courted by the media, Same with Russel Brand.

has Giles Coran been cancelled yet?

Ninkanink, dreamingbohemian made a very coherent argument.

“Cancel” literally just means “criticise.” Ordinary people going on Twitter to criticise celebs they don’t like. Yes, sometimes the medium of Twitter means that criticism can turn into a form of mass hysteria and become a pile on, that’s the nature of any medium that is anonymous and has lots of people. The exact same thing happens on MN all the time.

People are subject to mass criticism online for all sorts of reasons, some of them are reasons I agree with (outing racism and sexual abuse), some of them are reasons I disagree with (attacking women for holding GC views).

But it’s very worrying to attack free speech and to conflate anti-racism and women speaking up against sexual abuse, with TRA abuse tactics.

No I am saying that as a society the outrage should have happened at the time. She was not the first and unfortunately was not the last.

I'm genuinely confused by the singing the n word in lyrics thing. If someone puts that word in their songs, then people are going to sign along surely? There will be people all over the world of all skin colours singing along to various hiphop/rap songs, in their homes or cars etc. It doesn't mean they're racist, they're just singing along to a song they like.

Are they meant to not sing along? Or sing along but if they're white, miss that word out?
It's not my sort of music so I don't listen to it by choice but it is something I've wondered about.

Cancel culture feels a bit like the statue felling, it looks good and it makes people feel like they've done something but it's not getting to the root of the issue.
Cancelling Kimmel or this Jenna person (no idea who she is) isn't addressing systemic racism and it's worrying because it's an easy out "look we've "cancelled" so and so. We're against racism" which appeases people, then they don't have to make any meaningful change.

@Cadent

The test is not a load of rubbish. I believe the experts not randomers on the internet.

I suspect the people saying it’s rubbish had troubling results and don’t want to face the level of implicit bias we all have.

nyuscholars.nyu.edu/en/publications/predicting-ethnic-and-racial-discrimination-a-meta-analysis-of-ia

www.thecut.com/2017/01/psychologys-racism-measuring-tool-isnt-up-to-the-job.html#_ga=2.30944058.480467971.1593168704-1784982792.1593168704

It's a very important point. In your original post, you brought up the IAT as a reason for cancel culture to exist, i.e. people have these unconscious biases that need to be addressed.

Yes, if the test is disputed at best and invalid at worst, your whole stance starts to crumble.

Squashed By permanently cancelled, I mean that someone is never able to have any kind of career again. This is really only happening to a few people, like Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lauer.

Look at Mel Gibson. Caught on tape saying the most vile racist and sexist things. Hid out for a while, came back and got nominated for an Oscar. Still has loads of money and famous friends. Now in trouble again but will probably also blow over.

Sooner or later the mob always comes for its own.

By the way my comments on this thread do not relate discretely to the issue(s) presented here. It applies across the board. I’ve been talking about Nineteen Eighty-Four: A Novel, et al for years and years so this isn’t some new bandwagon I’ve jumped on.

News flash: It’s there and has been for some time. It will only get worse.

Blasted autocorrect! Insert here in place of there where clearly appropriate.

Exactly. People get really wound up at women and black people expressing their opinions or criticising people more powerful than them (look at the comments here, “baying mob” etc.) but the reason people who are the most marginalised use Twitter as an outlet is because they don’t have any other way to make their voices heard.

I’m really disturbed by the amount of pro-censorship on this thread, it’s really Orwellian.

@hamstersarse the results can tell the researchers where a police shooting is likely to occur.

When you can do that come and talk to us.

Cancel culture is the very antithesis of the principle of free speech. Hence why the relevant comment was entirely incoherent.

Thanks Cathy that's exactly what I meant : )

By permanently cancelled, I mean that someone is never able to have any kind of career again. This is really only happening to a few people, like Harvey Weinstein or Matt Lauer.

Look at Mel Gibson. Caught on tape saying the most vile racist and sexist things. Hid out for a while, came back and got nominated for an Oscar. Still has loads of money and famous friends. Now in trouble again but will probably also blow over.

Exactly. In practise “being cancelled” just means having to put your head down and ignore some nasty Twitter comments for a bit.

Sorry my heart doesn’t bleed for extremely powerful white men who have to suffer the horrors of nasty Twitter comments.

[quote Cadent]@hamstersarse the results can tell the researchers where a police shooting is likely to occur.

When you can do that come and talk to us.[/quote]
Honestly, what sort of answer is that? You will need to quote the study that you are referring to.

I am trying to point out to you that a raft of social justice movements have been based around the concept of unconscious bias. When the truth is that the science disputes that this is a meaningful measure of bias and behaviour.

the baying 'Cancel' mob with nary an independent thought between them and a deep need for group approval is acting on exactly the same impulses as those who carried out the lynchings in the deep south

Really? Those of us who object to racist speech or sexual predation are the same as people who murdered thousands of African Americans?

Criticising someone on Twitter is the same as murdering them and having a picnic to celebrate it? Okay.

And let me emphasise that I am a staunch feminist and my stance is very much in favour of women speaking out and even more so marginalised women. My views on cancel culture are wholly supportive of women, protective of them and actually pretty damn vital in ensuring we even have a voice at all in the very near future.

Women are being cancelled for speaking biological fact and material reality, and for daring to state assertively that they have a right to their biological identity (adult human female) and protections in law and in society by virtue of it.

Cancel culture is the very antithesis of the principle of free speech.

No. You’re wrong. You cannot choose who is allowed free speech and who is not.

For the most part those engaging in “cancelling” are the least powerful and most marginalised: women, sex assault survivors, and ethnic minorities. The “targets” of cancel culture are usually very powerful and wealthy white celebrities, often men.

There is a huge status imbalance there.

I’m not saying cancel culture is great. But in the absence of a proper criminal justice system, women and minorities should have the right to express an opinion.

@hamsterarse - source is Shankar Vedantam, The Air We Breathe podcast, Hidden Brain.

@CathyComesHome & @MinervaSaidThar no you really can’t, not if your objective is for it not to be used as a slur. As far as I’m aware this is only a ‘rule’ for certain sunsets of offensive name calling (disabilities and sexual orientations included). I can’t think of one other category of language it applies to.

Your applying a level of nuance and control over language that just doesn’t work on a wider scale. All it achieves is people who were never going to even try to comprehend the argument of reclamation continuing to use it offensively and perpetuating the cycle under the defence of ‘well so and so says it about themselves’.

Ring fencing a word adds nothing to growth or cohesion and only serves to ‘other’ people further.

I mean crack on if that’s what you want, it’s your right say and do whatever you want but I will never agree that particular words are only inoffensive if uttered by a certain groups. It’s not reclaiming anything the meaning isn’t the same for everyone.

Women are being cancelled for speaking biological fact

Which is why I keep pointing out the reasons it’s extremely dangerous to conflate “men being cancelled for being serial rapists” and “powerful celebs being cancelled for being racist” with “women being cancelled for being GC.”

Attempting to align GC feminists with sexual predators and racists is very, very dangerous and I wonder at the agendas behind the numerous posts attempting to do this.