Headteacher says I can't go on holiday

[Scuzzymummy]

Ok so this might not be a problem in a few weeks and please please believe me when I say I have done everything possible to ensure my pupils have had my attention and expertise when needed during lockdown. I have recorded lessons, marked work, given feedback etc... I know lots on MN have some very strong feelings about teachers at the moment 😬.
So I have a holiday abroad booked for the 18yh August. I have been hanging on and hanging on to see if we can go. We are so desperate for a break- who isn't- but my headteacher has emailed today and said that of quarantine measures are still in place in September then holidays at the end of August need to be cancelled. What do I do, I know I need to be back in September, god knows I want to have actually children in front of me not a bloody screen. But if we cancel we will loose hundreds and hundreds plus the holiday. We can't change the date, my husband is not able to change. Help!

LemonTT OP has already said that her DP cannot change holiday dates.
But problem is likely to be a moot point if OP waits until Monday when first air bridges are being announced.

Lemony - have you tried getting a refund for a holiday at the moment? Particularly one that may well go ahead regardless?

You can't usually cancel for a refund unless they companies cancel your holiday themselves. Most companies are leaving this til the last minute, for obvious reasons. The refunds, if granted, then take weeks and months to arrive with a lot of chasing.

You can try to rearrange but as this date may well be after the 'no fly' rules then it may well not be granted either. Plus many people are finding that to get the same holiday next summer is now much dearer.

And changes again when it spikes in August and you go back into lockdown.

OP

Some of these replies are bonkers. You need to speak to your head and try to come to an arrangement or go through HR if you have one. However, if you are told you must be back at work by x date, then you must be back at work- or face the consequences.

I agree that your HT cannot tell you what you can/can’t do when you are on leave. So she can’t force you to cancel your holiday. However, she can refuse to sanction a further 2 weeks of leave to allow you to quarantine for 2 weeks on your return. Even if you are allowed time off in lieu, that has to be taken at a mutually agreed time (unless your contract says otherwise). So if you went and the quarantine were still to be in place, you’d either have to break quarantine rules or not turn up to work as required.

Though I think quarantine plans may be changed or scrapped altogether by August/September. Perhaps Croatia will be included in the “air bridge” scheme. I think you do have a little time to sit it out and wait to see what changes are made, because it doesn’t sound like you will get a refund whether you cancel now or in a few weeks.

To those saying op should go and if there is a quarantine in place on her return her work will just have to give her more time off- do you really get to dictate to your employer when and for how long you will be off on annual leave? Do you get to decide to take extra leave on demand? I doubt it. OP would be better to approach the head direct to see if there can be a way to work it out, perhaps even speak to HR. What she cannot do is go on holiday, have to quarantine for 2 weeks and go to work without having the extra time off approved.
Someone even suggested she ask GP to give her a sick line to cover her extended time off- they can’t under current guidance as OP would not be sick, she’d be having to quarantine after her holiday.

I am not without sympathy for OP.

Time off in lieu doesn't exist unfortunately, working through the last two holidays was kind of expected and absolutely fine, we were doing our bit to support the key worker and vulnerable children so I didn't mind.

I haven't read the whole thread but this statement from the op is incorrect - time off in lieu (or extra payment) did exist for teachers and support staff working with key worker and vulnerable children through the school holidays - government guidelines regarding this were issued in early April.

How many days were you in school looking after key worker and vulnerable children in the holidays op?

Venue20 well if lockdown is reimposed, then OP will get her money back as holiday properly cancelled so problem solved .

Nihiloxica

*Get the union involved.&

It will be incredibly amusing if the teaching unions try to have it both ways on this.

"Our members must be free to fly around the world in germ tubes but school must be part time forever because children are disgusting."

I put getting unions involved in an unfortunate way. I just meant if
some teachers are being told the holidays should be honoured everyone should be treated the same. Thought unions might know what had been agreed. Personally feel sorry for people who have booked. Last thing I'd want is to have to get on an aeroplane with all that recirculated air.

Just tell them you’ve cancelled and go. No Facebook pics (also change privacy settings) remove colleagues if required. Also if asked by anyone whatsoever, whether they are related to the school YOU DIDN’T GO 😆😆

@rookiemere

Venue20 well if lockdown is reimposed, then OP will get her money back as holiday properly cancelled so problem solved .

Is the thought of lockdown due to more lives lost humourous to you ?? Shame on you.

OP I think you might find that Croatia is added to the 'air bridge' list over the next few weeks. My OH's employer has offices in Croatia and Serbia and both countries had strict lockdowns and low infection rates.

A couple of his colleagues there have family who work in tourism and he says they are really keen for visitors to come to the country.

These threads - whatever the nub of the matter are always in essence exactly the same. It boils down to this ;

Posters who believe that teachers have been idle work dodgers.. who have done bugger all for weeks AND expect to have their holidays on top.. aided and abetted by Unions for the work shy (as I've seen the NUT and NASUWT described) ... Those with this belief want teachers to have no holiday, want schools open for everyone immediately and honestly believe that the summer holiday should be cancelled.

Or

Posters who believe that teachers have been amazing over the last 3 months.

Either wfh and setting work, doing Zoom lessons - basically carrying on as before as much as possible.
Or working at school looking after KW children, putting their lives at risk (.. as KW children are the MOST likely virus spreaders of any dc) - carrying on through Easter holidays and half term without a break. Ably supported by their Unions , who have done EXACTLY what they are meant to do. Protect their members interest.
This group support teachers getting a proper rest. Ready for the new term and if that means a few supply teachers are needed at the beginning to cover PRE BOOKED holidays. Then that is how it must be.

The main influences are going to be with your experience of looking after your own children for 3 months. Your own child's remote schooling experience. Your financial situation through this, your housing situation and family support and of course - wether you have been affected by the illness.

The main problem is the mantra of 'we are all in this together.'
Yes we are all in the same stormy sea but travelling on vastly different vessels. Some are on luxury liners with state of the art stabilisers. Whilst some are treading water desperately hoping to be rescued, whilst knowing they will probably drown.

The chasm between the two is so vast..and teachers seem to be the easy target to blame.

No. Not true.
Just selfish teachers who want to put their holiday ahead of everything else.
She should be fired.

OP should not have posted that she is a teacher. The answers should be the same for any profession. Interesting that teachers appear to be held to higher accountable standards than others.

If quarantine still in place though, I wouldn't advocate lying. I believe you need to fill in a form with name and address when you get back and if your head suspects that you have been giving false information or coming back before you're meant to, I'd imagine it would be easy enough to prove.

How would your Headteacher react if for sake of argument, you did cancel your holiday and at the end of August you were contacted by the TT&T people and told you'd been in touch with someone who has tested positive and you need to self isolate for 14 days?

Yes I'm sure if the airport was lined with dying children the OP would skip merrily over them as she headed off for her holiday
Venue do you not believe in employment rights in general, or just when it comes to teachers?

She should be fired That's really going to help with the teacher shortage s isn't it? Fire someone for asking what the policy is for quarantine related time off for a holiday they booked well before any of this started. Glad I don't work for you venue.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel
You're right.
I'm still waiting for hundreds of threads bitching about furloughed workers on 80% for not working, given there's hundreds of threads complaining about teachers who are.

OP should not have posted that she is a teacher
Too true. The second the OP said they were a teacher the inevitable 'be grateful you have a job / you've already had lots of holiday' was going to start.

@EmbarrassedUser someone with some sense. I should like to let them tell me what I can and can’t do in my time off. Even if they did cover the money lost.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel thanks for this. I’ve tried to say similar things on many threads, but very few seem to accept just how disparate the experience of different schools is (I put this down to the fact that people aren’t mixing/having conversations with others, so everyone is in their own little bubble).

DH and I are both teachers, but at different schools. There’s HUGE disparity. My school is an independent school, I’m teaching my full timetable remotely, many extra-curricular activities are still running if possible, pupils are being closely monitored (as well as we can, anyway). My DH is at a state school and is expected to provide virtually nothing, and providing too much would be frowned on because many pupils can’t access it so it would just be causing a wider gap for September.

People are are NOT having the same experience.

Something that's always puzzled me is whether teachers have normal employment protections. Posters frequently state that teachers' holidays are unpaid, yet all employees are entitled by law to a minimum amount of paid holiday. Are teachers exempt from that? Because normal employment law also absolutely allows employers to require you to cancel your holiday with sufficient notice. A lot of employers are changing normal holiday arrangements at the moment due to Covid.

Not getting at teachers, just wondering how it actually works.

[quote chocolatviennois]@pixley have you actually been told that NHS workers have to cancel holidays and lose the money they have paid as I highly doubt this is the case. I expect they are exempt from quarantine.[/quote]
Our NHS organisation is saying that any quarantine period will either have to be unpaid or annual leave. That's fair enough. I guess the difficulty with teaching is that annual leave is fixed.

You're obviously feeling very strongly about this which comes from a place of pain or fear I imagine so I will not reply as harshly as you about the OP. I've had two holidays cancelled due to CV, one I've had the money back for one not yet. If I felt it was safe to travel, and if I couldn't get the money back, I would Absolutley be going on holiday in my holiday time. That's what it's there for. There is no guarantee the quarantine rules will be in place. There is an official agreement in my country that quarantined staff can work from home (we will still need people doing that) on full pay. So your view is clearly not a mainstream one. That's a lot of people would end up being sacked, and to what purpose? How would that improve things for children? Fortunately you are not working in HR

I'm waiting for a train so had nothing better to do than read the thread.
And bloody hell, together with all the other things going on in the UK at this time the only thing i can say is "when the fuck did everyone turn into 'I'm alright Jack' selfish fuckers in the uk"

Teachers have, on the whole, been going above and beyond and have already shown their commitment. As have other workers but since we're talking about teachers here it seems prudent to stick to that. Although this pp sums it up well

No wonder we're where we're at as a country when some workers are falling over themselves to undermine their own position and throw fellow workers under the bus.

Sorry all that was a reply to Venue, I see the thread has moved on