To be delighted that Keir Starmer has already managed to get rid of the horror show that is Rebecca Long Bailey.

[lemonsandlimes123]

I wondered why he appointed her in the first place. Glad to see he has managed to ditch her pronto. Shame he can't do the same with Rayner.

You do know that the holocaust also involved LGBT people as well?

Yes, I do.

I don't think that make the comparison between the recent idea that any mention of women's rights is transphobic with antisemitism a reasonable one.

on't think that make the comparison between the recent idea that any mention of women's rights is transphobic with antisemitism a reasonable one

Any mention of Israel and criticism is deemed by some to be anti-semitic,

In the same way any criticism of trans people is deemed to be transphobic by some.

People say anti-semitism when Israel is mentioned and it shuts down debate as people don't want to be seen as anti-semitic.

Good this has happened. Well done Keir

KS was just looking for an excuse to get rid of this student politician. I am delighted but I do think it's a bit draconian in terms of freedom of speech.

Any mention of Israel and criticism is deemed by some to be anti-semitic

Certainly not by me, nor by most posters on this thread. I haven't gone through forensically to check whether anyone has said that, but I suspect not.

I agree with your analysis of the deplorable actions by Israeli governments over the years (though obviously the situation is complex and far from one sided) but keeping on and on about it on a thread about antisemitism in the Labour party isn't right.

@AnneOfCreamCables

No, there haven't. There have been posts saying it's best 'not to criticise'. There have been posts explaining why they thought the article was anti-Semitic because they thought it shifted the blame from the US to Israel. They haven't explained why shifting the blame to Israel wasn't viewed as anti-Israel but anti-Semitic. But you're not here in good faith. You are trying to pretend 'Jewish people' view criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic. Well, my family in Israel don't recognise or support what Netanyahu has done to their country and they are appalled at these blatant attempts to shut down criticism by claiming anti-Semitism.

Because I wasn't born yesterday?

When people shoehorn in references to a particular nation that just happens to be the world's only Jewish state (at the expense of black Americans, no less), that is a particular type of bee-in-the-bonnet prejudice. Namedropping like that's a little deeper than 'I vehemently oppose what is happening in Palestine'. People don't develop that grade of namedropping irrationality about nations per se. If you have a nuanced considered problem with, for example, French foreign policies, you don't generally go on to beadily search for a connection with France everywhere else you go, because why would France's foreign policies have anything to do with the French secret service training in restraint? Once you do start doing that, that is no longer you being anti-France, that is you being anti- French and seeking to blame French people for everyone. Distrusting French people whenever you find some have been present is prejudiced, even if the prejudice genuinely started out as a nuanced considered opposition to some policies of the French government.

So, we've covered that this sentence can be taken not as an anti-Israel point of view but as an anti- Israeli point of view. Now, funny thing. There's a little name for discrimination that predates the creation of Israel but covers the same people who would be targeted by anti-Israeli sentiment: anti-semitism.

I really dislike Netanyahu, and find much to criticise in the state of Israel’s actions over the past twenty years. I often think accusations of anti-semitism are used to prevent legitimate criticism of human rights abuses towards Palestinians, and Arab Israelis.

Even I can see that that comment was anti-Semitic. There’s no need to bring Israel into a discussion about US police brutality. None at all. Obviously designed to excuse poor innocent white police led astray by devious Jews. Completely distracts from the BLM campaign to refocus attention back on the evils of Israel.

And if RLB was keen to support BLM, I’m sure she could have re-tweeted one of the many many excellent articles about systemic racism written by black people, both here and in the US, over the past month. But she didn’t, she found the one interview that linked it to Israel and retweeted that.

It may have been that it was an interview with her mate and she re-tweeted it without reading it properly, but in that case she should have held her hands up and deleted it once her attention was called to it.

ChristmasCarcass

And if RLB was keen to support BLM, I’m sure she could have re-tweeted one of the many many excellent articles about systemic racism written by black people, both here and in the US, over the past month. But she didn’t, she found the one interview that linked it to Israel and retweeted that.

When people do that, it reminds me of people who only speak up about women's rights and the oppression of women when it gives them an opportunity to bring up Islam.

PotholeParadise Yes, very similar.

Criticising Israel in a completely unrelated article is anti-Israel but that isn't the accusation ... it has been accused of being anti-Semitic. Not by all Jewish groups. Some said that the article was anti-Israel not anti-Semitic.
If we take this away from Israel ... if the article had said UK MI5 trained US police (and it was a verifiable fact that MI5 had trained US police but not a verifiable fact that they had trained the policeman who murdered George Floyd) then we would say that was anti-UK but I wouldn't feel it was anti-British. I wouldn't feel personally attacked. It's quite clear that the UK state/military/police are not the UK population. The conflation of the state of Israel with the Jewish people only benefits the state of Israel. It doesn't help Jewish people. It definitely doesn't help anyone or any campaign group trying to condemn human rights abuses.

@AnneOfCreamCables

Criticising Israel in a completely unrelated article is anti-Israel but that isn't the accusation ... it has been accused of being anti-Semitic. Not by all Jewish groups. Some said that the article was anti-Israel not anti-Semitic. If we take this away from Israel ... if the article had said UK MI5 trained US police (and it was a verifiable fact that MI5 had trained US police but not a verifiable fact that they had trained the policeman who murdered George Floyd) then we would say that was anti-UK but I wouldn't feel it was anti-British. I wouldn't feel personally attacked. It's quite clear that the UK state/military/police are not the UK population. The conflation of the state of Israel with the Jewish people only benefits the state of Israel. It doesn't help Jewish people. It definitely doesn't help anyone or any campaign group trying to condemn human rights abuses.

I think you're conflating the people doing the conflating!

Can I easily distinguish between the Israel population, the state of Israel, and Jewish people? Yup. It's not that hard.

However, just because I can distinguish myself doesn't make me obliged to draw distinctions that I can see other people aren't making. I'm.not obliged to take it on faith that what walks like a duck and talks like a duck is actually a swan.

I can see when people are using criticism of Israel as a fig leaf for anti-semitic sentiments that they would have if Israel didn't exist, and I can also see when Israel gets held to higher standards than other countries for whatever reason.

I can also see when Israel gets held to higher standards than other countries for whatever reason
If you can see it, then you can share it because otherwise it looks like you are attempting to position the state of Israel as a victim of bad publicity rather than a government involved in human rights abuses.

Well, let's see. In this thread alone we have had a bizarre, wide-eyed post about googling Mossad and finding out they might have 'dubious practices'.

Of course it bloody has. It's akin to claiming you've just googled and found out that soldiers from the US Army have shot people!