AIBU to wish people would not use playgrounds yet.

[mathdoc]

So I've just been walking in the local park with my DD (5) and she's been so upset she can't use the playrgound. Virtually every other child was being allowed on the swings and slides, despite clear signing saying it's not allowed and tape around the equipment. She was asking if she'd been naughty and therefore wasn't allowed on and I had to try to explain that nobody was meant to be on them. Am I being unreasonable to follow the rules? Have I got the rules wrong? AIBU to wish people didn't break them, especially while other children are around?

It's irrelevant...if a load of rich older men are allowed to play golf when they're more at risk from cv, why on earth should I keep my DC away from a playground.

This argument makes no sense. Men and women playing golf are using their own equipment not all sharing the same set of golf clubs. I doubt they are all crowding up together to queue for the same tee, or hugging each other or playing chase either.

Parks aren't in use where I live but I agree about the arbitrary dates. Pre announcements should only have been made about things that require planning for businesses etc. Social stuff like being able to play on the slide and who you can visit should be announced with immediate effect.

I'm so bored of our local park so I haven't been near since we were allowed to go to woodland and beaches but I have no concerns about letting my son play on them. Having said that, I don't want to undermine the efforts of others so I won't go until it comes into effect.

I think transmission risks are low council have removed all the swings anyway. Teenagers have removed caution tape and signage. We went yesterday for the first time and a few kids were playing at the same time. I think having missed all this time off school they need to socialise tbh. Also having a play date today with another family who will be in the same school bubble when schools go back. I think everyone has had enough, science says the risks are v. Low but lets get all the money making quite possibly higher risk stuff open first because kids and their wellbeing don't seem to matter.

"science says the risks are v. Low but lets get all the money making quite possibly higher risk stuff open first because kids and their wellbeing don't seem to matter."

Exactly. Pubs and parks reopening at the same time, as if they're the same risk level FFS 🙄

Yet another faux naive "have I got the rules wrong" eyelash flutter type post
When what you really mean is
"I am soooo much better than those naught waughty rule breakers " smug bollocks

Ive been on the play park, my son is 21 months and the look of utter joy on his face after months of basically only walking, not seeing his firends or family was great. My reasoning is that they're due to open next week and I cant see why a week will make any difference. Before that I wasnt allowing him even though other kids were on the park. My thoughts were he's my kid and its up to me to set rules for him. The kids using the play park have their parents to set their rules. If they want to allow their kids to use the park despite being advised against it (its not against the law) that's their choice. I saw it as a good opportunity to start teaching my kid that other parents might make different decisions but he needs to follow the decisions I make.

"11:14TheGreatWave

"As a parent, we need to limit any harm to our kids."

"Everything I do has potential to do harm to my children. A child is more likely to break an arm in a playpark then catch covid from there."
You've taken this comment out of context and twisted it. I hadnt said they shouldn't be in parks. The comment referred to us making the situation as best as we can...so not taking them past parks and telling them they cant go in them, not sitting moaning all the time in front of our kids, but making it more positive etc etc.

"This is quite interesting. I think it's potentially damaging because our modern children are used to being around children almost constantly and it's considered important to have friends your own age. A long time ago (or perhaps even now in some areas) it wasn't uncommon for families to live more isolated from others, so your children might only see other children a few times a year perhaps. But they would spend more time with adults, play or work alongside the adults."

Yes, I agree Too much importance is put on having friends and being with them all the time these days. Kids dont need this constantly, they need time to reflect and spend time on their own, and be self reliant and be able to manage their feelings and play on their own using their imagination. They need downtime from constant playdates and activities. I think the lockdown will do a lot of children some good.

Lots of children, are around their friends constantly, but then in the holidays will be with just their family. Doesnt do any harm to have that time out with just family.

"I think the lockdown will do a lot of children some good."

Do you even have children?!
Have the decency to respect that parents know what is and isn't good for their children.
Some children might be ok with 13 weeks of no face to face contact with anyone but their parents (and siblings if they are lucky enough to have any). Some children might be ok with 13 weeks of nothing but time at home, in the garden (if they are lucky enough to have one, and going out for walks - to be precise, socially distanced walks in quiet locations not too far from home (and not for too long because there are no toilets open).

If you have no respect for what parents are saying about the own children, perhaps you could consider the opinions of paediatricians, the children's commissioner, social workers, children's charities and other people with professional expertise in children's well-being. They have all expressed concerns about the impact of prolonged lockdown.

I meant to add, after saying that some children might be ok with it, that many children are NOT ok. From what I've read on Mumsnet it's been especially hard for children with disabilities (on them and their parents) especially if they are used to certain routines. But even for non-disabled children it is really not ok.

I would say actually lockdown has been good for my eldest he's calmer, his schoolwork has come on. quite happy to stay at home, 7 yo really struggling as he's really social and gregarious. Children are different and have different needs, some children will have benefited but the majority will not imo

We haven’t used playgrounds yet, because my children are lucky enough to be in the year groups allowed back to school and therefore they are having social contact/different environments to play etc, my mum lives alone so is now in our ‘bubble’ and we are lucky enough to have family and friends nearby who we can see in their gardens.
If my children had no prospect of seeing school until September, no nearby family and were showing signs of being negatively impacted by it... yes I’d let them play on a playground.

@mathdoc you have presented clear arguments for how you wish to raise your child - to respect authority, to obey rules, to seek to change them where necessary, but until that change can be effected, to continue to obey.

However, your post asked whether you were being unreasonable to expect others to help validate the choices you have made in raising your child, and to save you from having to present your arguments to your child and to stick to your principles in the face of obvious different opinions from others.

In that you are entirely unreasonable.

Some parents prefer to teach their children that when a law is not only irrational, it is detrimental to the well-being of the entire community, it is okay not only to question it, but to break it.

This country has a proud history of civil disobedience. Some of us prefer to teach our children that sometimes civil disobedience is the only rational response to a government that isn’t listening.

You went on to be unreasonable in attempting the argue that your position of not allowing your child to play in playgrounds was based on an actual risk, therefore also objectively validating your position as saving lives. You made a batch of hand-waving calculations, based on assumptions none of which are proven, and some of which have never even been postulated by scientists, epidemiologists, medical practitioners or even the WHO, and came up with a number of 3 extra deaths by opening playgrounds (not early, but presumably at all).

Even accepting your number (which I do not), it is worth considering the extra deaths that have undoubtedly occurred through domestic violence because of the lockdown. Could some of them have been avoided if kids and parents had had somewhere to go and play? I don’t know, and neither do you. What about the deaths that may result from increase in childhood obesity because there was nowhere for children to play? What about the deaths from mental illness and depression in children - there is clear evidence that the lockdown has contributed to that. Using your own numbers, maybe closing playgrounds only contributed to 0.0001% of those extra deaths...maybe the extra deaths from the lockdown were only 2% (actually the evidence is that extra deaths from all causes due to lockdown will be many factors higher than 2% of the total.). I think you understand my point... Lots of handwaving calculations are possible...

The degree to which the welfare of children has been disregarded throughout the pandemic response is a public disgrace.

"Do you evenhavechildren?!
Have the decency to respect that parents know what is and isn't good for their children."
Yes and they are fine and have enjoyed lockdown. Theyve enjoyed the pace of life being a bit slower. There are other threads on mn saying how their kids are fine and lots of people have agreed. So perhaps have some respect for others who are saying that for them, it's been good.

"If you have no respect for what parents are saying about the own children, perhaps you could consider the opinions of paediatricians, the children's commissioner, social workers, children's charities and other people with professional expertise in children's well-being. They have all expressed concerns about the impact of prolonged lockdown."

You dont seem to have respect for what other parents are saying to you do you. Is it your way or no way? And lots of other experts have also stated that lockdown will be good for some children. It's only been 3 months. Lots of children have loved being off school and loved entertaining themselves or being more relaxed etc. Personally, I've loved the slower pace of life and my children have too. They can soon get back to the hustle and bustle life.

There’s absolutely no way I’m teaching my 6 year old to ignore or remove hazard tape! Next time it could be stopping access to something really dangerous.
I’m not particularly Covid anxious - we went to the woods this morning and ds climbed all over a tree his friend was also all over. We washed hands when we got home.
But it’s really dangerous to let kids think that rules are not important -especially safety rules.

Everyone’s been using the local ones here all lockdown. Thankfully I’ve drilled the closed it’s illegal to currently play in them. My children make comments about those naughty people playing on the park as we go by though now mind 😅

I've just come home from school 60 kids touching stuff and each other

They could touch stuff in a supermarket
Or clothes shop so I see out doors sunny day with sanitizer or soap and water is safer

My children haven’t been shopping or attending school.

Now I’m perfectly happy to bend rules in general however we have all enjoyed this slower pace of life and lack of rushing here and there and demands placed upon our time. My children are interacting digitally with friends and they have each other to play with.

Ah, you're one of those. It's been fine for me and my kids, so other people shouldn't complain.

Sorry, cross posts. I was replying to TabbyMumz.

"anotheremma
Ah, you're one of those. It's been fine for me and my kids, so other people shouldn't complain."
And your one of those, my kids have been miserable and will suffer for ever, so it cant be true that anyone elses are fine.

And anotherEmma....is it the case in your world that anyone who has been fine, cant have a voice and say so.

"Children have been denied an education, denied permission to see friends and extended family, expected to cope with this indefinitely (week 14 and counting) and officially they can't even go on the fucking swings."

God, you wouldnt think there had been a pandemic, would you? Just our horrible Government being nasty to kids for the sake of it eh?

@BiggestJulie makes some good points which I'd like to think about a bit more. To what extent should I expect others to obey rules just because I want my children to? (btw my calculation was meant as a very back of the envelope guesstimate - I hope I wasn't claiming that the numbers were evidence based. It was just to illustrate the principle that lots of small risks can add up to tangible effects).

I think the phrase that someone used that struck me is "civic responsibility". I'm very happy to encourage critical thinking, and even a certain amount of rebelliousness can be a positive thing, but I guess I think that the middle of a global pandemic is not the time to be making those points. And I certainly think that people should be aware that when they choose to break rules involving young children it makes life harder for other parents, so please think carefully before doing it publicly. I'm conscious that any individual parent might have very good reasons to break the rules (hence why I would never challenge any parent there), and I thought especially the poster who chose to take their children to the playground early in the morning to avoid other children being there showed the kind of behaviour which was trying to make the best out of a bad situation. However, the numbers of people I'm seeing breaking this guidance and others suggests that it is not just people in exceptional circumstances who are doing it.

Looking at the crowded scenes on southend beach tonight, or the mass party last night in Brixton, I wonder how many of the participants also thought that they were using common sense / critical thinking and could explain why it was ok for them to be doing that? Is this an invalid comparison? Maybe they have done no harm, but I'm not comfortable with so many people feeling that they are above the guidance of experts, as arbitrary as it can sometimes seem.