Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

[mediumbrownmug]

Please protect your child. Abuse is statistically more likely to come from family members, close friends and authority figures in your child’s life. Your BIL is being grossly inappropriate, and even more worryingly, is overriding your wishes and taking control of your daughter from you in your presence. He wants to be alone with her (sleeping on the couch), and was deliberately inappropriate with the towel incident. If it were an adult, he would’ve been dressed. You know your in-laws are not going to back you up after FIL’s behavior. See a professional and bring your husband, talk about how to protect your daughter from these things in general so he can learn the signs. Then never, ever, for an instant, leave your child alone with these people. Better safe than sorry.

[confusedm1]

@Intelinside57

Maybe the answer to your DH is that yes, you do actually suspect that either his brother has no idea of appropriate boundaries or he is showing an unhealthy interest in getting too physical with a child. Tell him that your daughter should not be constantly mauled about. Explain that grooming and normalising inappropriate behaviour starts when children are babies so that they don't recognise and speak about it when they are older. You could maybe make a Sarah's Law enquiry. The fact that your FIL acted so quickly is a bit interesting isn't it?

Thanks for your advice and yes I'm planning a Sarah's law enquiry. I've tried to unpick FILs behavior in this, but I think he only looked at the situation through my eyes when I arrived and realise that it wasn't appropriate. He's not the type to talk about it either.

[Pregnantandstressed24]

Please please don’t leave her alone with DH’s family. EVER. And stop allowing your husband to dismiss what you are telling him. His family have acted WAY out of line. If my step-dad or BIL ever did that I would not allow them close contact with my child again. I cannot get over the towel incident and how weird it is that your FIL and BIL were allowing that. They KNOW it’s wrong as they freaked out when you walked in, but they didn’t stop previously when she was crying? Huge issue.

[Autumnsloth]

Agree with everyone. At the very least, even if he is harmless, you don't want your DD to learn that this behaviour is normal. It opens her up to abuse from others, even if not from BIL.

The very fact that BIL is indulged to this extent in the family is a concern too. You can't trust in laws not to let him do what he wants even with innocent things like giving her the appropriate food.

[LouHotel]

Has your 2 year had her last HV check?

I’m thinking that your DH needs to hear a safeguarding talk from another person to drive home how bad this Is, a health visitor would be a good shout as unfortunately they know what to look for.

[TJ17]

Also - let's face it! Even if he didn't think anything of the towel incident and didn't find it sexual in any way - it is still inappropriate!
Paedo or not I wouldn't want a man around my child that thought nothing of a child climbing up his pretty much naked body! What else does he not realise is inappropriate?!

[Mothership4two]

As others have said, trust your gut and do not leave dd with inlaws EVER. Towel incident is a massive red flag.

Your partner is an idiot if he wants to wait for the next time - not speaking up because of embarrassment/awkwardness is nuts, your dd must come first. Something needs to be said (by you both) now. Bil may just be socially awkward but why risk her safety?

And he cannot be allowed to (constantly) overrule your parenting. He sounds like a bully

[Sunnydayshereatlast]

No unsupervised visits at all. Your dd is never to be out of your sight with these people.. A family member of mine was abused with 3 other adults around. I person and the dc out of sight.. Nobody saw anything untoward. You take dd to the loo with you. Or not see them at all which is my ideal.

[romdowa]

I just read this post to my oh and it made him feel sick. Its definitely not appropriate, weather your bil has a learning difficulty or asd ... it's still not appropriate nor an excuse. Which should be raised with him if he does have issues that would impare him. The fact the your pil and dh want to deny this has happened , is an even bigger red flag. They know it wasnt right but just dont want to face it.
I wouldn't back down on it at all.

[WingingItSince1973]

I dont trust your FIL either to be honest. There's no way on earth that my FIL would be taking my dd into a room with an almost naked uncle! Seems extremely inappropriate behaviour for both men to do. The fact he also jumped and pulled her away when you came in seems very telling. Never ever leave your dd with any of them! Am sorry but this has alarm bells ringing loud and clear x

[confusedm1]

@Valkadin

It’s boundary testing and him getting her used to him touching her all the time, the towel thing is incredibly extreme. I’m all too sadly aware about sexual abuse. It is far more common than anyone cares to admit.

I don’t know if you had work lined up there but if you do move, I’m assuming you do. I can almost guarantee that his behaviour will not be questioned by his parents. People do not want to believe it is happening especially about people they love, I directly told my Mother, she remained with my stepfather. You will never be able to leave her with your in laws, it just take a couple of minutes and a lot grooming and abuse takes place in plain sight.

Myself and my sisters all have MH issues, maybe he is just a bit of a weirdo but he does not respect your rules as a parent.

Thank you for posting and I'll take your advice onboard.
I'm really sorry for what you've been through, that's horrendous. The thought of anything happening makes me physically ill.

[Bluntness100]

I’m not a fan or supporter of the “trust your gut or instincts” line because I’ve read too many posts from folks with anxiety, jealousy, insecurity. Etc where the last thing they should do is trust their gut.

To me it sounds like a man with social anxiety who may have just wished to interact with the child. I personally don’t think having a shower in the evening is odd, and I’d guess that neither him or your fil saw any issue with your child crawling on him. That your fil left because of your reaction.

Basically you’re insinuating this man is a paedo. And one who is attracted to infants. I’d be cautious but I’d really think about is this your dislike of him, and your over protective streak or is it you really think your brother in law is what youre insinuating.

[Socialdistancegintonic]

@WingingItSince1973

I dont trust your FIL either to be honest. There's no way on earth that my FIL would be taking my dd into a room with an almost naked uncle! Seems extremely inappropriate behaviour for both men to do. The fact he also jumped and pulled her away when you came in seems very telling. Never ever leave your dd with any of them! Am sorry but this has alarm bells ringing loud and clear x

That is true. Just reading it made me feel sick too.

[TJ17]

@Bluntness100

I’m not a fan or supporter of the “trust your gut or instincts” line because I’ve read too many posts from folks with anxiety, jealousy, insecurity. Etc where the last thing they should do is trust their gut.

To me it sounds like a man with social anxiety who may have just wished to interact with the child. I personally don’t think having a shower in the evening is odd, and I’d guess that neither him or your fil saw any issue with your child crawling on him. That your fil left because of your reaction.

Basically you’re insinuating this man is a paedo. And one who is attracted to infants. I’d be cautious but I’d really think about is this your dislike of him, and your over protective streak or is it you really think your brother in law is what youre insinuating.

You know this is the first time he'd met her don't you? Do you not think it's quite overly familiar to have a child climbing on top of you when you are naked?! Also - the child was CRYING! So not just having fun with a well known uncle.....
Paedo or not - it is not appropriate

[freeingNora]

There's a book called protecting the gift it's well worth a read abs speaks directly to situations like this.

Unfortunately pedophilia can run in families trust your instincts esp how your father in law took him to her

I have a friend who was abused by family and they would discuss who she would 'visit' over Sunday lunch

People know they just don't say

[crochetandshit]

I would not be moving house.

[confusedm1]

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Another one saying trust your gut and, Ohtherewearethen, I was abused by my grandfather and (I believe) by my dad when I was very young.

OP, your post made my throat catch. It sounds as if BIL is testing the water, nothing too much to raise hackles - but his own father came in and took your daughter away from him. Look at that... his own father doesn't want your daughter alone with him.

I have sympathy up to a point for your husband because it's a shit situation but your daughter's welfare and safety comes first and he needs to realise that. Since BIL is at your PIL's house then your daughter cannot be, not without supervision by somebody who will actually look out for her.

I have no confidence in Sarah's Law enquiries, I believe that many paodophiles walk among us disguised as loving family members.

Cancel the move if childcare was the only reason for it, I would. Show your husband this thread if you think it will din some sense and realisation into him because everybody's sorry after the event...

Thanks for posting and your advice. I'll show DH this thread. We have a friend who's a police officer specializing with SS cases, I'm thinking of asking her advice too.

[GoldenZigZag]

What made her cry out OP?

[Socialdistancegintonic]

I’ve also had male members of my family be overly familiar with me when I was a young girl. These did not turn into abuse however I found them deeply uncomfortable as a young girl. I did not like it at all. It feels horrible when someone who you don’t know, just grabs you. It is being treated like a piece of someone’s property.

So any way you cut it, it’s really not nice for your DD. Trust, safety and touch are intertwined.

[Apple1029]

OP look at what happened. He did something completely and blatantly inappropriate, and every single one of you just kept quiet and brushed it away. I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying how something like this happened in plain sight and no one said anything. Agree with everyone that he is testing the waters. It is very frightening.
I would be looking to cancel that move asap. Who gives a shit about your IL feelings in this situation.

[winterchills]

Very odd, trust your gut.

[cuteglasses]

Don't let them near her again. Scary stuff.

[mbosnz]

I told my girls, 'trust your alarm bell in your tummy', if something feels wrong, don't worry about upsetting or offending anyone, you get the hell out of there, and you get to an adult you know you can trust.'

I also follow the same advice as a parent and an adult. If something feels wrong or off, and it could potentially be very detrimental to my child's welfare if I'm right, then I'd rather ask forgiveness later on if I turn out to be wrong, then hope for the best - and possibly find out my child suffered harm as a result.

And BIL thinking that he can do whatever he likes, regardless of the parents wishes is a huge red flag. So tough shit. She is not his dolly.

[mbosnz]

than hope for the best. . .

[GinGinHooray]

Trust your instinct.

Do not leave DD at in laws without you being there - ever.