Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

[Justmuddlingalong]

I wouldn't care how much I was saving by PILs minding her. How would you possibly settle at work worrying? Best get paid childcare sorted now as it will be more awkward to stop them minding her once they've started. I wouldn't be moving to be nearer them either, but then if you've alternative childcare you wouldn't need to. Stand your ground, your spidey senses are tingling for a reason, listen to them.

[WeMarchOn]

@Rowan8 I'm Autistic and am really offended by your insinuation!

[LouHotel]

My brothers were having a water fight with my daughters and my then 3 year old took her pants off and got naked - my brothers all came inside and got me rather than resuming because it looks back no matter if it’s innocent.

This is not innocent.

He was intentionally allowing a 2 year old climb over his naked body and what exactly was your fucking FIL doing at that moment? Also was your daughter in a state of undress because she was about to have a bath?

You should have take your daughter not your FIl, you should have confronted but I understand that in the moment you can freeze.

Your daughter is a year away from funded nursery hours, the cost of a years of nursery is nothing compared to peace of mind.

Your FIL has demonstrated that even if the incident was harmless he cannot be trusted to ensure safeguarding and i go back to the question, what the fuck was he doing in the room?

[TiddlestheCat]

I'm not sure that I would trust a man to care for my toddler, esp if he doesn't have his own children and has little understanding of children. I don't think that the towel incident is bad tbh. Your FIL was there too. If she started to climb over BIL, he could hardly swat/push her away. However, if there is a possibility that your in-laws might leave your daughter alone with him to look after her, then I wouldn't trust him. It's not even the thought of anything sexual happening. It's the fact that he doesn't sound very responsible/experienced so could take his eye off her/feed her grapes etc. I don't think that I would feel comfortable with any man (other than my husband) looking after my children when they were young. You don't need to explain. Just trust your gut and then pay for childcare.

[hadtojoin]

I agree with the rest, not accepting your requests to stop is a bad sign. The tickling is also a red flag for me, and the consoling, it seems he wants to think of him as her trusted person.
I would also wonder why DD was crying and why PIL took her into the bedroom with BIL in the first place when he had just come out of the shower and only had a towel round him.

[Socialdistancegintonic]

Absolutely trust your gut. You don’t have to accuse. Just focus on the specifics

• challenge him every single time and do not allow her to touch her face. Or feed her. Or take over in any way. Stand your ground extremely firmly. Keep saying it. If he says ‘it’s okay’ say it is not okay stop doing it.
  

Never use them for childcare. Ever.

Never let your DD out of sight, not even to go to the bathroom.

Keep your time there for an absolute minimum.

[GinDrinker00]

Trust your gut.
I wouldn’t allow him anywhere near them unsupervised if I was in your shoes.

[confusedm1]

For those of you saying to trust my instincts that's reassuring.

@Ohtherewearethen you make a great point if it was SIL I would be annoyed about the other stuff but probably feel similar to the town incident.

When I left the room i felt physically sick, the whole thing was just off. FIL should not have let that happen and told him to get dressed first.

@HollowTalk I should have said something then but DH talked me out of it. He says it will turn ILs against us. They will take BILs side.

[OneForMeToo]

Yeah no. I wouldn’t want this man near my child at all. His building up so it’s just uncle X you know what his like always being one of the kids playing around. Building that idea in your daughters head that well uncle X has always been very touchy and nobody’s ever down anything about it so it must be ok.

[confusedm1]

@Ponoka7 they definitely aren't up to date on any safeguarding. They are retired and didn't work in any fields that required it.

[DeerHeart]

Can you explain the towel incident a little
More? Like, was he covered or not? His father was there, what makes you think it’s sexual in any way?

It sounds to me like he just really loves his niece. Maybe he doesn’t think he will have the opportunity. I think to accuse him or being a paedophile is a big Jump when very little has happened.

[Socialdistancegintonic]

Also, why are you moving near ILs?

I’m worried about a few things. Your DH was just defensive of his family, not concerned about his own daughter.

You do not seem assertive enough to stop this. You seem a bit passive - you left the room, did not challenge, are saying they will want to do childcare.

[Aquamarine1029]

I should have said something then but DH talked me out of it. He says it will turn ILs against us. They will take BILs side.

I would be telling your husband that you don't give two shits about what your in-laws think about it. Your daughter's safety comes first, not their fragile feelings.

[billy1966]

OP,

Your gut is your second brain.

You sound like you know.

Tell your husband that you don't trust you BIL AND your FIL who also removed her quickly.

Child abuse is endemic.

A huge part of this is because lots of people do not realise it.

Talk to the people who work with or come across the collateral damage, legal, law, psychiatrists, child protection, social workers....they all say the same thing..."you haven't a clue what is going on out there"...I believe them.

I live in a very affluent, urban area for 25 years...I have learnt that I have 4 convicted people within 200 metres of me.

She is depending on you to protect her.
I can understand this is awkward.

Never ignore your gut.

[bakingberry]

Hi OP, did I read it right that your DD is now 2 and this was BIL first time meeting her?

Is there a reason they've not met before? The reason I ask as I wonder if there is something in the back of your mind that delayed them meeting sooner?

I think you need to trust your gut and maybe even voice your concerns to the family. Your peace of mind is more important than trying to please your in-laws. It's easier for him to back off and respect your wishes than it is for your to deal with the consequences.

[Gwynfluff]

Trust your gut. I mean the gladwellian sense of gut - the human instinct we build up by observing thousands and millions of interactions and working out what is ok and what isn’t.

A lot of abuse is overlooked as the behaviour is minimised and people are told they are overreacting to things. So they lower their boundaries. The tickling alone is a sign that he is pushing her boundaries and also that it can be seen as ‘just tickling’.

[ttigerlilly]

Even if this behaviour is innocent, it's not appropriate in the slightest.

Trust your gut

[Idaofmay]

Trust your gut.

I have lots of uncles, not one of them would have let one of the many little cousins clamber over them while wearing only a towel.

Why was your DD crying?

Interesting that FIL whisked her away. He wouldn't have done that if this was a case of naive people not realising how what they see as an innocent situation can look inappropriate.

[BreatheAndFocus]

Definitely trust your gut. He sounds disturbed at best (the face-touching and comment about food) and very dodgy at worst.

Have you ever asked your DH more about him? Not in a ‘is he a paedo’ way but more about his history? Not just one-off comments but a potted history? There could be more you don’t know.

Don’t move close to your ILs and never use them for childcare.

[Pregnantandstressed24]

Oh my gosh I’m so sorry OP.
My stomach dropped when I read this. His behaviour is so unbelievably out of line and not ok! This would make me uncomfortable if ANYONE did it. Keep your baby away from him and no unsupervised visits with grandparents. Do not leave your baby with them and please don’t move. Many, many of us have unfortunately been abused by close family and please don’t take any chances. The fact FIL left her with BIL who was only in a towel is weird and shows they won’t protect her. Please keep her safe.

[sassysoul]

I think BIL will make more of an effort to be at you PILs if the DC is there too, there will be too many opportunities for him, this post has made me feel so uneasy, as mothers we must do everything we can to protect our children, whether your instincts are right or wrong it's not worth the risk

[faithfulbird]

In this day and age. I'd rather be protective than have guilt later. Trust your gut and don't trust anyone. Keep her away from him. Don't keep discussing it with your husband because he might not understand (since it's his brother). I would not be comfortable if my BIL had just his towel on (never mind if it was covering him properly or not) holding my daughter.

[Idaofmay]

Also he's already ignoring your boundaries and requests so he can continue touching your daughter the way he wants to.

You're half-way through the most expensive childcare stage. You'd be mad to move closer

[wildcherries]

DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out.

Yeah, no. Absolutely not. There is no way I'd leave her at that house for childcare. Why would FIL take her into the bedroom in the first place, if he almost ran out when you came in because he knows BIL's behaviour is weird? I'm not saying anything would ever happen, but I would not take the chance.