to think that people don't realise how tough it is being a GP?

[naima99]

My dad is a GP. He used to love his job, got home at a reasonable time and had more time to spend with his patients.

Now, he regularly gets to work at 7am and leaves at 9:30pm. He has no time for lunch a lot of the time. He hates that he doesn't have the time he used to have for his patients. He gets tonnes of abuse when he's running late but isn't allowed to say that he's late because his last patient was having a suspected heart attack in front of him, or that he had a child in front of him with undiagnosed diabetes whose life was in danger etc. He's lost so many staff members because they're all fed up. He has no life outside of work because he is working on the weekends as they're so short staffed.

He knows so many doctors in the same position.

Now I'm not claiming that GPs are heroes or deserve any more than the rest of us, but I hear them being slated so so much.

People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment, that google told them something different so the GP must be wrong which results in complaints or anger directed towards them. I was on a conference call the other day when my colleagues randomly started slaying GPs and them not seeing people face to face during covid saying they need to 'man up'

I don't know if IABU to think that a lot of people don't quite understand that appointments in the surgery are such a small part of being a GP, and that it is a pretty gruelling job at times. Maybe I am just being protective over my dad as I can see him falling apart in front of me.

Does anyone agree or AIBU?

Those suggesting they work part time if the hours are too stressful - most do. “Full time” 5 day a week GPs are pretty rare as 4 days a week is equivalent hours to a normal full time job. It’s good they are paid enough to do that as the burnout rate would be a lot higher if they all had to work 5 days a week. It’s bad enough as it is and obviously the fact that they all work “part time” only compounds the recruitment issues as you need more GPs to provide the same amount of hours in a surgery

I used to be a nurse and none of us could understand why anyone would want to be a doctor or a GP, it's an awful job.

To add to @Lindorballs post- those saying that if they are finding it too much to leave. They are- in huge numbers- there is a big retention crisis in general practice which is part of the reason people are having to wait weeks to see one.

those saying that if they are finding it too much to leave. They are- in huge numbers- there is a big retention crisis in general practice which is part of the reason people are having to wait weeks to see one.

Yep. We have three options: no doctors, doctors who are burnt out and pissed off, or better conditions for doctors. It doesn't really matter if you think they're whingeing about nothing or other people's jobs are just as hard, or whatever. The fact is, the people who have the skills we need are unhappy doing the job we want them to do. If we want to keep them, and for them to function optimally, we have to treat them better.

There are bad ones, but my GP is amazing. She is brisk and to the point but incredibly thorough, never fobs me off, always listens carefully. She's also really funny and dresses great
I want to move house but I genuinely worry about moving out of area and losing her! I hope she knows how much her patients value her.

I think that it is a vicious cycle in a couple of ways tbh.

The average doctor now has so many more patients, so it is very difficult for either party to know each other properly in many parts of the country, so the personal touch is missing, which isn't the doctor's fault. It's just that those of us who remember fondly having a doctor who remembered something about them may be disappointed and also personal knowledge of someone can assist in diagnosis sometimes.

And for the doctor it is less rewarding being responsible for so many people with few resources to given them that many leave, so then the issue gets worse.

The GP is in charge of resource allocation - they are supposed to act as a filter and practise an element of rationing. It is not their fault that the services that they can refer on to may be limited or have very long waits, but the patient experience may sometimes be a case of doctor saying no without the patient understanding this background. Doctors are also the managers of the admin in the system, so if something goes awry, they will have a hostile patient despite it not being their fault.

The issue is really the design of the NHS. The people in it are great but the system is extremely wasteful and so it is easy for politicians not to fund it because it is wasteful. It is wasteful because it exists as a system whereby tax money is poured in at the top and various levels of management have to decide where resources is allocated and who is "deserving". By contrast, the french insurance based system is demand led - money is allocated to services based on the number of (paying - via insurance) customers who will be using them - if you have more people in need of cardiac care then that is where resources flow. It is not all about money - my mum had a blood test in France (she is a resident) two weeks ago - it was fasting, so the local nurse came to her house between 7 and 9am to take it. Sensible and patient focused. Services are designed for the number of people (on average) who are using them according to the revenues coming in. People have their medical records on an electronic card that is swiped to pay for treatment. It is so far beyond what the NHS is doing it is unreal and it is not just about the additional money coming in because the service is better by more than the funding. But the NHS a holy cow in the U.K. and any sensible means of reforming it will be resisted with the usual upset about "privatisation" etc.

Lots of respect to all the hard working GPs

It’s a difficult job but the financial rewards are massive.

@BeautifulCrazy I was having a moment.

I have had an awful lot of poor experiences from GPs. I used to have a great GP, she retired and then since then ive seen lots of GPs - the majority have been incredibly patronising and dismissive. Have missed basic conditions. Waiting 4 weeks for an appointment, being brought in 45 minutes late and then being shrugged off doesnt give anyone a great opinion of their GP tbh.

Obviously a massive part of this is how the system is set up, bit at the same time I shouldnt have to constantly cut my GP slack when my health is involved.

Yup - agree with all of this.

And it is true if GPs hate it so much they can leave. I think an awful lot of people actually work incredibly hard, and thats why these threads always get peoples backs up because just like theres a lack of understanding about how hard GPs work, GPs equally have very little knowledge about how hard others work.

And this!

@snowqu33n that's sounds like such a great system, do you have a spare room?

I agree OP and know a few GPs.

For balance I would like to add I don't know many people who aren't working longer hours, through lunch, feeling stressed etc. That's for other professionals in higher salaries as well as low paid roles.

It's the world we live in and not restricted to any job/sector.

@nicenames you make good points about the system that is the NHS.

While the system does need reform that still doesnt excuse the shoddy, dismissive treatment many people experience actually in the consulting room.

When I go to see a doctor I want to be listened to not just seen.

Why does you dad work so late and start early? Is it paperwork (honest question.)?

I think a lot of people have issues with surgeries in general. I think people are frustrated with surgery times that don't fit in with people's work lives, the cutting back of home visits, not being able to ever get through on the phone. The list is endless. The problems aren't the GP's fault but the system is very flawed and probably letting practitioners down just as much as service users.

Some of the GPs I've had contact with can't seem to wait to get you out of their office and are dismissive of anything you say to the point of negligence - and no, I'm not talking about Google self diagnosis, I talking about symptoms. I can only think of one really good GP I've seen - ever.

Perhaps it's a really unfair perception and the negative experiences outweigh the OK ones, but people who are unwell or worried about their health are very vulnerable and shouldn't be made to feel like a nuisance for using a service they pay for through tax contributions. It's probably a case of the few bad apples, but it sways perception.

I’ve had great GPs over the years. Kind, compassionate and obviously keen to make mind or my families health better. I’ve also had one or two with some HUGE blind spots who would not listen about certain issues and were incredibly dismissive. I have a pharmaceutical background, I’m highly educated and I only see the GP if there is genuinely an issue. I turn up on time, I stick to one issue per appointment. I expect them to do me the curtesy of not treating me like an idiot. Mostly this is fine but the Dr who saw us when DD was a baby was condescending and utterly dismissive over multiple appointments until she ended up in A&E and then paeds where she was diagnosed with what I said she had in the first place. I’m sure GPS work long days, I work long days.

I'm moving away from my current practice and I want to kidnap my lovely GP and take him with me. He's put in so much time for me and never said anything about it — I discovered on some notes from another clinic that he'd contacted them several times to advocate for me and get them to treat me. And also, totally separately, somehow decided on a whim to test me for an autoimmune disease despite me not mentioning any symptoms of said disease, and it turns out I have it and the damage was just not showing itself yet 😂 I see from the system logs on my app that he's there inputting records at before 8am and after 9pm, and even on New Year's Day. But he always has time to listen to me and help me with my multiple health conditions.

The issue is really the design of the NHS. The people in it are great but the system is extremely wasteful and so it is easy for politicians not to fund it because it is wasteful. It is wasteful because it exists as a system whereby tax money is poured in at the top and various levels of management have to decide where resources is allocated and who is "deserving"

I absolutely agree with this. No one seems to know what to do or how to fix it. One political side would throw good money after bad and the other underfund because they are wasteful of the resources they do have and very badly managed! It's a bucket with hole in it and resistent to change!

What I do find (sorry for not RtFt) is that I end up needing GP appointments for things which HAVE to be done through them but tbh could have been done without requiring their time/expertise/signature and I’m not thick I could use technology or see someone else and leave the space?

Eg things like sick notes - I had to go into a and e with something serious which was then “on the system” needed to go separately to my gp to get the sick note - she was great but I didn’t need the time and the soothing words, could have printed it out myself given access? Or an admin person could have done it.

Or sometimes it’s just being asked a couple of perfunctory questions to get a prescription (no examination or time needed) which I knew I needed anyway as I’ve had the same issue all my life.

I mean this could be done on a WhatsApp consultation if the technical and legal approval was there.

@GnomeDePlume

Oh yes, obviously if you have been dismissed or had a rude GP that is totally inexcusable. I just meant that the system is designed for maximum GP apathy towards their patients (because it is not about maximising patient health - my mum gets a full health check at the doctor every year - bloods, ECG, smear, breast exam - when you know your family doctor and they have an active interest in you staying as well as possible you can have conversations about eg weight or diet etc and you have conversations that are not about getting you out of the room ASAP) and for maximum annoyance towards GP (as they are often in a position of being the front for what goes wrong or for denying patients tests - ie rationing).

It's the worst job out there....I used to be one. You are signing hundreds of scripts and analysing blood tests hoping and in a very short space of time hoping you don't make a life or death mistake. I didn't sleep for worry of it. Then realised after paying my massive medical insurance bill the money wasn't that great anyway...so I left. Now so can breathe again. You sound lovely OP that you understand....I found it hard to explain to non medics. In a less stressful medical job now were risks aren't so catastrophic

To be fair, as much as the system is at fault, the public are sometimes unhelpful too. Pharmacists are such an underused resource, for example. I wish people would think to visit them for minor issues before heading straight to the GP and clogging up appointments. The ones I've seen have always been really helpful and happy to be asked and use their knowledge.

High level nurses have also been really good at my local surgery and have been able to prescribe certain things.

It's a very difficult job because it's dealing with the public when they're unwell/fearful/have chronic pain. It is comparatively well paid & I think when GPs compare salaries they don't appreciate that many others put in huge amounts of unpaid overtime too.

The role of the GP is valuable within our healthcare system and I think it would be best preserved by completely ditching self-employed status. If GPs became proper employees of the NHS (like consultants) they would have better protected terms & conditions of employment & lose responsibility for a significant chunk of the admin of running a business. eg still responsible for clinical audits but not buildings maintenance.

I think being a GP must be tough

I have been THAT PATIENT.. the one whose appointment was over half an hour longer get than it should have been and who left in a taxi to hospital rather than going home.

Ever since then I've been a lot more patient and understanding when GPs run late.

I dont have a problem with GPs running late in general

But I do have a problem when they run late and then dismiss your problem. Previously Ive had to visit them 4 times for one problem because they kept ignoring what I was saying.

My mum was very ill and ended up in hospital because she a)couldnt get an emegency appointment and b) when she finally did get in was again dismissed

My grandma was on a medication that was causing considerable side effects, for literally years she was telling the GP about these side effects and he was telling her nothing could be done. New GP swapped medication -sorted.

The problem is both my grandma and mum are quiet, nice women. They wont kick up a fuss or complain. They dont want to be a pain and are already embarassed about 'waisting the GPs time'. Ifa GP then makes them feel ashamed for coming they arent going to push and end up getting poor care. But they shouldnt have to push for the GP to take them seriously

I do understand that diagnosis can be difficult, I dont always expect to be diagnosed in the 10 minutes and I understand medicine can be trial and error. But I dont want to be fobbed off, if the GP isnt sure just tell me, try something and make a follow up.