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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think bad of people that work in slaughterhouses??

436 replies

RiverMeadow · 22/06/2020 20:31

I was reading something earlier and it got me thinking about the members of staff who actually work in slaughterhouses and who see these things first hand.

Regardless of whether you eat meat or not we're all still human and I'd assume it's a job that's a very hard one emotionally... or am I wrong?? Do the colleagues just look at it like a job and not physically killing animals? It would break my heart 😭

OP posts:
blubberyboo · 22/06/2020 23:42

OP I was going to comment on how your title doesn’t correspond with the content of your first post. The title is very attacking but I see others have commented.

Yabu. Plenty of people have to do jobs that others don’t want to do all around the world.
humans rely on meat across the world as a food source and clearing land to grow plant and vegetable crops which itself destroys habitats.
The people who work in abattoirs and chicken factories have a hard job to do as do others in that chain, from the farmer to the lorry driver transporting livestock on their last journey, to the factory worker and then the butchers and packers.
Because we have domesticated cats and dogs we also have to kill animals for the meat to feed them.
A farmer might have to shoot a dog if it is worrying sheep.
A soldier in battle may have to kill a human and we all benefit , yourself included, from the freedoms that gives you.
In countries across the world doctors and nurses have to perform healthcare that may lay heavily on their minds , whether that be from euthanasia, to abortion, to making decisions in palliative care.
Fishermen have to fish
Vets put down animals
Pest control and culling from hornets nests to rats to badgers.
Builders clearing land to build houses and the habitats that get displaced, and a few worms etc sacrificed.
The reasons are all different but they all involve ending a life and none of us have the right to judge our peers who carry these burdens on behalf of us all.
The important thing is that it is humane

Nervousvendor · 22/06/2020 23:57

Anyone read Cows? Grin

canigooutyet · 23/06/2020 00:04

Abattoir workers, like police and other workers are more suspectable to PITS, which is a type of ptsd.

Closing them isn’t a viable choice because well we do enjoy meat and also use other parts of the animal especially cows. That’s forgetting the global impact this would have due to job losses.

The unions, the workers, hse, exploitation workers etc all want the same thing. For it to be safer and better for the people and animals.

It’s the owners and of course criminal gangs who are the problem. But of course it’s easier to attack the underling or patronise them rather than doing something more beneficial to help.

However, as the consumer to do so it would make these items unreachable for many.

DdraigGoch · 23/06/2020 00:13

You can not compare a lawyer with someone who slaughtered animals day in day out ffs!
Indeed you cannot. One feeds the nation, the other holds up underwear in court to ask the jury if they think that the wearer was "asking for it".

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 23/06/2020 00:22

I understand it is just a job but having seen tv documentaries on this I would find it massively challenging to do the deed! In fact I can’t do it myself to be frank and thankful for those who do this role and use of modern machinery to make it as efficient as possible. Would probably go meat free if I witnessed it first hand!

No issues with chopping up seafood (preferably fresh but not alive).

Big meat, seafood and vegetables and everything else eater as definitely no vegan here!

GarlicSoup · 23/06/2020 00:26

@Rubyupbeat

Over and over undercover videos are released of abattoir workers abusing animals. Yes, I know that not all, but a person would have to be devoid of empathy and emotion to see the fear and terror these animals display and still go back day after day. I firmly believe this and would never associate with anyone capable of doing this job.
I agree with you
RainySaturday · 23/06/2020 01:12

I knew someone who worked in a slaughterhouse and he was always very caring of the animals on arrival, and very respectful through the process. He kept it calm and as peaceful as possible, and fought his employers for the means to make it so. It did affect him emotionally and couldn't just go back to the rest of his other jobs straightaway.
Likewise I know a farmer who built a slaughterhouse on his farm so the animals wouldn't be stressed by a long journey. He was nothing but kind in his treatment of them as far as I could see. Not in UK.

SurreyHillsGirl · 23/06/2020 05:52

YANBU

SurreyHillsGirl · 23/06/2020 05:54

@Rubyupbeat
Over and over undercover videos are released of abattoir workers abusing animals. Yes, I know that not all, but a person would have to be devoid of empathy and emotion to see the fear and terror these animals display and still go back day after day
I firmly believe this and would never associate with anyone capable of doing this job

Agree with this statement 100%

EmperorCovidula · 23/06/2020 05:57

You must have lead a very sheltered life OP. I know people who’ve worked in slaughter houses. They needed to eat and put a roof over their heads. It wasn’t a pleasant job by any means but it was more pleasant than being homeless.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 23/06/2020 05:58

YABU. It's a job. People do what they do to get by.

It's not the same thing but I worked in an outbound call centre for a while and I got told that I had no morals, that I was taking advantage of vulnerable people (which was wrong). At that point in my life it was do that job or be on benefits.

I never judge anyone for their job choice.

EmperorCovidula · 23/06/2020 05:59

@DdraigGoch criminal law is the crappest of law jobs. Most lawyers don’t do that and really look down on people who do.

RiverMeadow · 23/06/2020 07:23

@EmperorCovidula You must have lead a very sheltered life OP.

I have not, but I also don't know anyone who works in a slaughterhouse. I used to know someone that worked in a chicken factory and that's it.

OP posts:
Moonmelodies · 23/06/2020 07:28

Surprising the entire abbatoir process isn't mechanised by now.

legalseagull · 23/06/2020 07:33

@Wewearpinkonwednesdays

You can not compare a lawyer with someone who slaughtered animals day in day out ffs!

Why, lawyers knowingly help people they know are guilty of awful crimes go free.
Surely someone who knowingly helps a rapist or child abuser walk free is worse than someone who shoots a bolt of electricity through the head of a cow.

Utter bollocks. If we KNOW they've committed the crime - as they often tell us - then we have to tell them to plead guilty or we cannot represent them. We have a duty not to mislead the court so can only put forward defences, not something we know to be false.
DDiva · 23/06/2020 07:42

YABU

I have a great respect for those people doing a difficult job.

I eat meat. I dont pretend, I know animals have been killed for me to eat it. The people i feel bad about are those that pretend the meat packaged in a supermarket didnt start with an animal being slaughtered.

welldonesquirrels · 23/06/2020 07:49

Would probably go meat free if I witnessed it first hand!

I keep reading breezy statements to this effect and it's staggering.

If the reality of your dietary choices is so awful that being confronted with them would immediately put you off it, then why do it?

You know what happens, you don't need to see if first hand to know where your food comes from and obviously, from statements like that, you know it's horrifying.

So why do it? Because even if you're not seeing it first hand, it doesn't make you any less complicit.

EmperorCovidula · 23/06/2020 07:51

@RiverMeadow I meant that you must have lead a very sheltered life if you think that everyone is always in a position to turn down a job that they find unpalatable. No one I know that’s worked slaughtering animals wanted to be there but they had no other choice but to do it until they found a better job. For some of them it was a long time. None of them were there through choice, they were there because they had no other option.

TillyFloss10 · 23/06/2020 07:51

I don't eat meat and would rather these places close too but I do not put on the blame on the people who work there. Someone has to do it, the places are not just going to close down tomorrow.
The workers do get feel for the animals and often suffer PTSD. This is why these undercover videos are so awful, the workers simply stop them as living beings as a coping mechanism. If they had to deal with the reality of the job, they would likely have a breakdown. I know people are going to reply and say 'no one is forcing them to work ther' but this is a very privileged thing to say, for some people it not easy to quit a job and find another one the next day. Also like I said, these places will continue to operate so someone has to do it.

kikisparks · 23/06/2020 07:59

I’m vegan and I feel terribly sorry for people who work in abbatoirs, it’s not a job you’d pick by choice.

@Queenoftheashes amazing, do you need any help to go vegan? This can be a good place to start you’ll get recipes, dietician’s advice, meal plans and more challenge22.com/

kikisparks · 23/06/2020 08:04

@canigooutyet yes I’m vegan and I’ve thought about and researched the environmental impact of this- it’s actually a lot lower than the environmental impact of a non vegan even if they are eating grass fed animals from local farms:

pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es702969f

“, “buying local” could achieve, at maximum, around a 4−5% reduction in GHG emissions due to large sources of both CO2 and non-CO2 emissions in the production of food. Shifting less than 1 day per week’s (i.e., 1/7 of total calories) consumption of red meat and/or dairy to other protein sources or a vegetable-based diet could have the same climate impact as buying all household food from local providers.”

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181023110627.htm

“A new study provides a more comprehensive accounting of the greenhouse gas emissions from EU diets. It shows that meat and dairy products are responsible for the lion's share of greenhouse emissions from the EU diet.”

“The study found that meat and dairy account for more than 75% of the impact from EU diets. That's because meat and dairy production causes not only direct emissions from animal production, but also contributes to deforestation from cropland expansion for feed, which is often produced outside of the EU.”

“People tend to think that consuming locally will be the solution to climate change, but it turns out that the type of product we eat is much more important for the overall impact," says IIASA researcher Hugo Valin, a study coauthor and Sandström's YSSP advisor. "Europeans are culturally attached to meat and dairy product consumption.”

science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987

“Today, and probably into the future, dietary change can deliver environmental benefits on a scale not achievable by producers. Moving from current diets to a diet that excludes animal products (table S13) (35) has transformative potential, reducing food’s land use by 3.1 (2.8 to 3.3) billion ha (a 76% reduction), including a 19% reduction in arable land; food’s GHG emissions by 6.6 (5.5 to 7.4) billion metric tons of CO2eq (a 49% reduction); acidification by 50% (45 to 54%); eutrophication by 49% (37 to 56%); and scarcity-weighted freshwater withdrawals by 19% (−5 to 32%) for a 2010 reference year.”

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.511.7351&rep=rep1&type=pdf

“Much of the estimated 35% of global greenhouse-gas emissions deriving from agriculture and land use35 comes from livestock production. Livestock production—including deforestation for grazing land and soy-feed production, soil carbon loss in grazing lands, the energy used in growing feed-grains and in processing and transporting grains and meat, nitrous oxide releases from the use of nitrogenous fertilisers, and gases from animal manure (especially methane) and enteric fermentation44—accounts for about 18% of global greenhouse-gas emissions (figure 2).42 This estimate consists of around 9% of global emissions of carbon dioxide, plus 35–40% of methane emissions and 65% of nitrous oxide, both of which have much greater near-term warming potential over several ensuing decades than does carbon doxide (although they have shorter half-lives in the atmosphere). Similar estimates exist of the contributions of UK farming, live-stock production, and the food chain overall, to national greenhouse-gas emissions.45

Health professionals warn that the use of antibiotics early on in the food chain, with farmers administering drugs to animals to promote growth rather than treat disease, is a particular problem.”

www.fcrn.org.uk/sites/default/files/project-files/fcrn_gnc_report.pdf

“But at an aggregate level the emissions generated by these grazing systems still outweigh the removals and even assuming improvements in productivity, they simply cannot supply us with all the animal protein we currently eat. They are even less able to provide us with the quantities of meat and milk that our growing and increasingly more affluent population apparently wants to consume. Significant expansion in overall numbers would cause catastrophic land use change and other environmental damage. This is especially the case if one adopts a very ‘pure’ definition of a grazing system, the sort that grazing advocates tend to portray, where livestock are reared year-round on grass that is not fertilised with mineral fertilisers, receiving no additional nutritional supplementation, and at stocking densities that support environmental goals.“

GetOffYourHighHorse · 23/06/2020 08:10

'Over and over undercover videos are released of abattoir workers abusing animals. Yes, I know that not all, but a person would have to be devoid of empathy and emotion to see the fear and terror these animals display and still go back day after day.'

Yes, there's a massive disconnect between what happens in slaughterhouses and people desperate for their bacon butties.

I feel sorry for anyone who can't find any other employment other than killing animals, must be depressing, miserable work. Either that or they're psychos who couldn't care less.

seething1234 · 23/06/2020 08:10

@Miljea

I suspect the vast majority of abattoir workers don't as much 'become immune', as really aren't that bothered in the first place. As in, go in, do the job, come home, get paid.

The idea of 'becoming immune' is heavily imbued with your implicit judgement of them. 'They know what they're doing is reprehensible and disgusting', effectively, but somehow 'push through' to a state of numb acceptance, poor bastards.

Very clever.

I made the comment on becoming immune to the work based on my experience. The same way I felt a bit sick seeing bits meat on the floor when I started and after a while I didn't notice it. I'm sure plenty of people are disturbed and leave but those who stay, yes I definitely think they become immune. The meat processing work is so physically tough and not great pay (though those who get promoted do really well for themselves) and I had huge respect for those guys and girls on the factory floor. A lot of the factories are solely supporting rural economies, literally the life blood of the community I live in
SadSisters · 23/06/2020 08:10

Are you saying no guilt people every walk free because they have had a good convincing lawyer behind them?

I expect this does happen sometimes, where the prosecution does a poor job or there simply isn’t the required level of evidence to convict somebody. What I don’t agree with is your view that this makes law an immoral profession.

Lawyers can’t defend people whom they know to be guilty, but unless their client has confessed to them, they are required to operate on the same assumption of innocence until guilt is proven as any person. If they decided their client was guilty without first going through a trial, we would fundamentally undermine the essential democratic principles that everyone is entitled to a fair trial determined by a jury of their peers.

We require a high standard of certainty to convict people in this country - beyond reasonable doubt. This is because we place such value on the concept of individual freedom and liberty that we take any attempt to curtail it seriously. We don’t believe it’s right to convict someone on the basis of a ‘more likely than not’ belief. We recognise that this may sometimes lead guilty people to go free, but as a nation we believe that this is preferable to relaxing the standard of certainty to the point where we would risk convicting innocent people.

You may disagree with this approach and think it would be preferable if we relaxed the standard of certainty required to ‘more likely than not’. I understand why that’s tempting, particularly in cases which are very difficult to prosecute, such as rape trials. But it’s not fair to lay these frustrations at the door of defence lawyers and consider them to be immoral when what you actually want to challenge is the entire history and foundation of British jurisprudence. Lawyers have no choice but to operate within the confines of the model that exists, and the majority believe - as do I - that while no system is perfect, the current one seeks to preserve the rights of the innocent and is therefore a good thing.

I think I understand where you were coming from - you were frustrated at the OP appearing to unfairly judge slaughterhouse workers and you wanted to draw on a profession traditionally seen as respectable / moral as a comparison to show why you felt OP was being hypocritical or unreasonable. But I can’t see any logic to your position, and none of your further statements on it have clarified matters.

Should we now not have slaughter houses because the OP "thinks badly" of the people who work in them?

I don’t think we should have slaughter houses because I think the entire process of raising animals for slaughter is morally abhorrent. I don’t, however, judge a slaughterhouse worker as more morally abhorrent than any person who eats meat. In fact, I think they are less so, since they are by and large economically vulnerable people forced to take a dangerous and traumatising job out of necessity, while the average meat eater comfortably buys packets of meat in the supermarket without ever being confronted with or caring about the horrendous human and animal cost to get it there.

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