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To think bad of people that work in slaughterhouses??

436 replies

RiverMeadow · 22/06/2020 20:31

I was reading something earlier and it got me thinking about the members of staff who actually work in slaughterhouses and who see these things first hand.

Regardless of whether you eat meat or not we're all still human and I'd assume it's a job that's a very hard one emotionally... or am I wrong?? Do the colleagues just look at it like a job and not physically killing animals? It would break my heart 😭

OP posts:
SadSisters · 23/06/2020 13:44

I've said several times why.

No you haven’t. You’ve flip flopped back and forth between saying criminal defence law is immoral and then that you don’t think it’s immoral, and at no point have you given as single reason as to why you think it’s immoral, or what you consider a moral alternative to be.

Well that's as ridiculous as me saying people just shouldn't commit crimes, then lawyers don't have to do the job.

How are these things related?

If people want to eat meat, slaughterhouses will exist. The alternative to the horrific mass slaughter of animals is simply to not eat them. Sorry, but there is no other way.

HelloToMyKitty · 23/06/2020 13:44

It’s a legitimate job that contributes to society (as the vast majority of us do eat meat).

We are lucky to have this option. Imagine, just a few generations ago, we’d have to wring the necks of chickens ourselves.

Now, of course we should make this process as humane as possible, but the work itself is necessary, though unpleasant

Goosefoot · 23/06/2020 13:44

[quote SadSisters]@Goosefoot immorality means wickedness. It relates specifically to acts of wrongdoing. What part of criminal defence law requires those practicing it to perpetrate wickedness or wrongdoing?

People may well be squeamish about the idea of practicing criminal law. I fee that way about many jobs - I wouldn’t want to be a psychiatrist who treats pedophiles, or a PIP assessor, or a prison guard, or a plastic surgeon. But my personal views on whether or not those jobs align with my own ideas about what is good and productive and helpful have nothing to do with immorality.[/quote]
Yes, squeamishness is a good word, and I think that actually is what a lot of people feel about jobs like slaughterhouse work. There is the physical squeamishness, but also a moral squeamishness, where people feel rather as if they'd feel badly, almost a little corrupted.

It's probably an unhealthy sentiment to indulge, really.

But as far as things like criminal law - there is a kind of moral edge I think that can go on with these things. In the most direct way, you may be doing something like telling what you know is a lie, even though ultimately it is in the interests of justice in terms of the whole system. I've seen this described as walking on the edge of a volcano - it can begin to distort the sense of right and wrong, in much the same way that jobs like slaughterhouse work, prison work, military work, even working with children, can harden people's sensibilities in some ways. There are consequences, psychologically, to playing certain parts in a system, and these are things that people wrestle with morally too - what is my culpability in playing this part? Does the system really balance out the harms? Etc.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 13:50

and at no point have you given as single reason as to why you think it’s immoral, or what you consider a moral alternative to be.

Yes I have. Defending people they know have committed violet crimes. I'm not sure which bit of that you are struggling to understand?
I have also told you I don't have an alternative, and that I believe it's necessary, which is more than you have done with your suggestion of every person in the world becoming vegan. That's not likely is it?

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 13:52

And I will also say, at no point did I say "I think criminal defence lawyers are immoral", I said they have a side to their job which can be classed as immoral. You are making things up to suit your own agenda.

ItsSpittingEverybodyIn · 23/06/2020 13:52

I think everyone needs to watch the documentary on You Tube that I posted about earlier, Slaughterhouse The Task of Blood, I couldn't watch much more than a few mins but the first worker they speak to talks about the pleasure he gets from getting away with murder, you see him stunning a pig that is squealing and he shouts SHUT UP really nastily.

Studycast · 23/06/2020 13:53

Death is in the midst of life. And where there's live stock, there's dead stock too. It's a necessary job and one that needs to be done with speed, professionalism, dignity and skill.

Animals can suffer pretty horrible deaths living in their natural environments through predation, starvation and disease.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 13:55

The alternative to the horrific mass slaughter of animals is simply to not eat them. Sorry, but there is no other way.

Exactly, so they will very likely always exist,because people will always eat meat. You won't convert the entire population of the world. Animals will always be killed by humans for food. People were killing animals long before there was a criminal justice system.

SadSisters · 23/06/2020 14:01

Yes I have. Defending people they know have committed violet crimes. I'm not sure which bit of that you are struggling to understand?

How does a lawyer know their client is guilty, though? Crystal ball? ESP? Visitations by angels?

We determine guilt in this country by way of jury trials. It is not for one person to decide they have the right or ability to judge another person’s guilt, and it would be disastrous for justice and democracy if lawyers started trying to do so.

And as I have repeatedly said, and you have repeatedly ignored, there is a massive public good in lawyers defending the innocence of their clients, regardless of their own gut feelings.

I have also told you I don't have an alternative, and that I believe it's necessary, which is more than you have done with your suggestion of every person in the world becoming vegan. That's not likely is it?

Just because it isn’t likely doesn’t mean it isn’t right. It’s pretty unlikely that we will ever live in a world without murder, but we still recognise that murder is morally wrong.

SadSisters · 23/06/2020 14:02

And I will also say, at no point did I say "I think criminal defence lawyers are immoral", I said they have a side to their job which can be classed as immoral.

This is a truly subtle distinction. Can you explain the difference to me?

Mittens030869 · 23/06/2020 14:03

Yes I have. Defending people they know have committed violet crimes. I'm not sure which bit of that you are struggling to understand?

The issue is that people train for years to be a barrister. They don't choose that line of work out of necessity, they choose it and can make really good money doing their job.

It's totally different for minimum wage slaughterhouse staff. If you go to the job centre and that's a job you're offered, if you refuse it because you have a moral objection to that line of work, then you risk losing your benefits. (Especially if there's also a position on a farm or with a butcher.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:05

How does a lawyer know their client is guilty, though? Crystal ball? ESP? Visitations by angels?

They don't in some cases I suppose, but I bet they do in others. Personally, I couldn't defend anyone who was accused of being a peadophile, even if there was no evidence to prove they were guilty. I could however kill an animal for food.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:06

This is a truly subtle distinction. Can you explain the difference to me?

You need that difference explained to you? You can't be serious?

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:08

The difference is, I can say something may be classed in a certain way by some people, without actually thinking that way myself.

Ilovegreentomatoes · 23/06/2020 14:09

After reading this I really want to try again to become veggie.I love animals but eat meat so feel like a total hypocrite.

2bazookas · 23/06/2020 14:10

Maybe you should transfer your concern to undertakers, pathologists, lavatory cleaners, bin men, sewage workers. Anybody else who does a bloody/dirty/tough/smelly job to support the society you live in.

Purpletigers · 23/06/2020 14:11

I live on a beef farm , cattle have the best life of any animal living on a farm as long as it isn’t on a factory farming scale . Ours isn’t .
If you care about animal welfare then chicken is the one meat you should avoid . They generally have a dreadful existence unless you’re buying free range which from what I understand isn’t as free range as the consumers imagine it to be . Our cattle spend a lot of time outside except when the weather is particularly bad . Their calves stay with them for months and are removed gradually to avoid causing them distress .
Sheep and lambs have a good life too . Personally I don’t like the dairy industry.

SadSisters · 23/06/2020 14:12

They don't in some cases I suppose, but I bet they do in others. Personally, I couldn't defend anyone who was accused of being a peadophile, even if there was no evidence to prove they were guilty. I could however kill an animal for food.

If you were a criminal defence barrister, you wouldn’t have a choice (see cab rank rule link, posted above). And if you were yourself accused of pedophilia, you would be very grateful to have a barrister willing to give their all to defending you, rather than them all assuming you were guilty and refusing to defend you at all.

You need that difference explained to you? You can't be serious?

I do indeed. Maybe I am simply stupid, but I confess that the distinction between ‘defence law is immoral’ and ‘defence law has an immoral side’ is not one I can readily understand.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:15

If you were a criminal defence barrister, you wouldn’t have a choice

You always have a choice to become a defence lawyer. Working in a slaughter house isn't always a choice if it's the only job on offer. Of course some people go into it because they make the choice, but studying to be a lawyer is always a choice.

Goosefoot · 23/06/2020 14:16

@Ilovegreentomatoes

After reading this I really want to try again to become veggie.I love animals but eat meat so feel like a total hypocrite.
It's interesting though, people who end up working with animals very often don't have that kind of sentimental feeling. Farming, veterinary care, even animal rescue type things - you are there dealing with animals that themselves are carnivorous, you know what happens in nature and what their lives look like.
Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:18

I do indeed. Maybe I am simply stupid, but I confess that the distinction between ‘defence law is immoral’ and ‘defence law has an immoral side’ is not one I can readily understand.

Well I already explained the first difference you asked for, which was about my personal view on it changing (which it actually didnt, you just made that up).
I don't suppose there is a difference between something being immoral, and just having an immoral element to it, because the immoral element will always be there, but that wasn't the question you previously asked. The answer to that one is above.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:20

Do you have an alternative to slaughtering animals for food yet, apart from converting the whole world to veganism (Animals are still slaughtered in the production of crops, incase you were unaware of that)

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 23/06/2020 14:22

And if you were yourself accused of pedophilia, you would be very grateful to have a barrister willing to give their all to defending you, rather than them all assuming you were guilty and refusing to defend you at all.

Yes, I probably would. Likewise I'm grateful to the people who rear, kill and butcher my meat so I don't have to. I can imagine would take up a lot of time.

RiverMeadow · 23/06/2020 14:30

@Wewearpinkonwednesdays @RiverMeadow no I mean with the bit about them probably being guilty. You realise people have been given the death sentence and then later found innocent, but by then it's too late obviously. Also a long time ago, in the times of hangings etc (which I'm sure the poster rendered to) people were killed left right and centre for basically nothing.

Yes I understand this, I'm not meaning a long time ago, those hanging etc for nothing were abhorrent. I'm simply referring to a person who has been found guilty with the use of evidence in a court of law.

OP posts:
BiBabbles · 23/06/2020 14:31

No, though I do think badly of corporate executives and lobby groups that push to maintain horrible conditions for the workers in a very difficult job. I think similarly of when it comes to other foods that cause horrible problems for the workers, like cashews that cause burns on the skins of those who process it and the companies and lobby groups that push to maintain that painful practice or pretty much any food production that relies heavily on workers living in overcrowded accomodations with limited legal rights. Those are all supported and maintained by corrupt systems. I really don't think an entirely ethical 'cruelty free' diet is achievable by most.

I grew up with stories of older relatives who worked subsistence farms and wrung chicken necks to prepare for dinner, and that that was a big part of why some of them had worked so hard to get out of it. It had nothing to do ethics, they also wouldn't even keep gardens in their later years, it was just horrible work that often led to a lot of pain. I do not think badly of them for either having regularly killed animals or getting out. They did what was available with their options, not really thinking about what would make like fair and nice.

Speaking of, a quick google says over 50 countries have the death penalty, so not sure why the US got singled out for still having it. It not even the largest user of it by far.

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