To think bad of people that work in slaughterhouses??

[RiverMeadow]

I was reading something earlier and it got me thinking about the members of staff who actually work in slaughterhouses and who see these things first hand.

Regardless of whether you eat meat or not we're all still human and I'd assume it's a job that's a very hard one emotionally... or am I wrong?? Do the colleagues just look at it like a job and not physically killing animals? It would break my heart 😭

To all the I am now vegan anti killing as killing is killing and so technically impossible to be humane camp - I am actually having further thoughts towards your viewpoint.

However, I love meat and seafood so having it for forever how do I try to be a non animal/sea creature eater?

Dated a vegetarian at university before and I did not last a week trying to “convert”!

I love meat, fish and seafood so find it impossible to go just vegetarian or vegan or whatever is the latest hip foodie trend bandwagon these days!

I am the “idiot” that above said I eat meat/sea food but can’t stomach the thinking about the killing bit!

I eat most foods including vegan, vegetarian etc etc but wishing to explore options! But not as far as bio tech lab produced meat protein space food.

If you genuinely believe criminal defence work is immoral, what’s your alternative?

Why do you keep asking me that? I've already made it clear I don't think that. I'm just pointing out that there are immoral sides to a lot of jobs. Why are people calling people who work in slaughter houses psychos, and saying they couldn't possibly associate with them, without thinking about the people they may already associate with who immoral sides to their work.

@welldonesquirrels nonsense? I don't recall ever aiming any of my posts towards SadSisters, until they picked at something I said. Also I haven't been rude or aggressive, why would their responses no be polite? Do you automatically become aggressive and rude because you don't agree with someone?

@Wewearpinkonwednesdays I am absolutely serious that I would expect someone to feel differently about putting an injection into someone's body to end their life who, for instance has murdered a child etc than killing a defenceless animal that has been born and carted off to the slaughterhouse for the sake of someone's dinner??

OP, the problem with your statement is that there are a lot of miscarriages of justice and, unlike the judge, jury and lawyers involved in the case, the executioner won't have seen the evidence so they won't know with any certainty that the person is guilty.

But also, a lot of people oppose capital punishment on moral grounds.

No, I don't judge people who work in abbatoirs, because I eat meat and I'm quite aware that the process of getting it to my plate is brutal. I also don't judge people who perform abortions, not because I've had one but because someone has to do it if other people want or need that service.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'I think part of the reason modern westerners are so uncomfortable with death of animals is that they are unused to dealing with death all round'

With respect, that is nonsense. It is the fact for example, we have petting farms where people queue to feed the cute lambs yet within months they are being crammed into transport and taken to be slaughtered. It is the way people love their cats and dogs and are horrified at other countries who eat them, yet don't give a toss about animals in this country factory farmed and living distressing horrible lives, to then have a distressing horrible death.

I'm quite happy for animals to die of natural causes, just not after panicking in a queue after hours in transport then being shot with a bolt gun.

I'm not suggesting that it's wrong to be concerned about the conditions around industrial farming.

But if you listen to the things people say around this, it's often quite unrealistic. This idea that without farming animals would be living out some sort of nice gentle lives in nature? Many many people believe that in nature most animals live out something like a maximum life span.

And most western people are very uncomfortable with human death and unused to it. This has been a big social change as we've moved the elderly and sick into hospitals and care homes so we don't have to deal with the details of death. People are not used to having their children die or dealing with funerals at home. Even funerals have become rather sanitised.

We're alienated from nature. There is a reason vegetarianism is an urban phenomena and not associated with food self-sufficiency.

A relative works as an electrical engineer in an abbatoir. He takes pride in doing his job well and as a result minimising the stress and suffering of those animals. Those are his words - not mine.

It isn't an easy job for him but he is able to leave the day at the door with his work clothes and boots. He doesn't talk about his work beyond what his colleagues have been up to eg days out, family stuff.

I have nothing but respect for him.

Going to be even harder to get people to work in these environments now...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/53137613
Why are meat workers getting coronavirus?
People get infected with coronavirus from droplets, which may be coughed, sneezed or exhaled by an infected person.

The infection may come through close contact with the person or by touching infected surfaces.

"Factories and, in particular, indoor areas which are cold and damp, are perfect environments for coronavirus to linger and spread," according to Lawrence Young, Professor of Molecular Oncology at the University of Warwick.
"Virus-containing droplets from infected individuals are more likely to spread, settle and stay via
Another possible factor in these refrigerated workplaces is noisy machinery, which requires people to talk more loudly or shout, which can increase the spread of infected droplets.
What about working conditions?
It is difficult to keep workers two metres apart when they are working on fast-moving production lines, and the absence of daylight may also help the virus to survive.
"When you have people standing right next to each other working heavily - because of course this is a difficult job - and breathing heavily, you have a chance for spreading virus from just one infected individual to many that are in close proximity," said Tara Smith, professor of epidemiology at Kent State University in Ohio.
"And then of course you have a chain of dominoes after that."

No, you are spectacularly missing my point. A lawyer may have to treat them as though they are innocent, but there's a good chance they know full well they are guilty.

And why is this immoral? Or wrong, or something they shouldn’t do? What is the bad part of a lawyer behaving as though their client is innocent before their client has been through a trial to prove their guilt? Why do you have a problem with this?

Why do you keep asking me that? I've already made it clear I don't think that. I'm just pointing out that there are immoral sides to a lot of jobs. Why are people calling people who work in slaughter houses psychos, and saying they couldn't possibly associate with them, without thinking about the people they may already associate with who immoral sides to their work.

Do you genuinely see no contradiction in you saying that you don’t think defence lawyers are immoral, and then in the next sentence saying ‘why aren’t people talking about the immoral sides of jobs like defence law’?

Either you don’t believe criminal defence work is immoral, in which case you have to concede that the point you have tried to make by saying that defence lawyers are immoral has failed, or you believe it is immoral, in which case I want to know what your alternative model of criminal justice is.

@RiverMeadow no I mean with the bit about them probably being guilty. You realise people have been given the death sentence and then later found innocent, but by then it's too late obviously. Also a long time ago, in the times of hangings etc (which I'm sure the poster rendered to) people were killed left right and centre for basically nothing.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia you don’t have to plunge in all at once. You may find it easier to switch specific products (for example, moving from cow’s milk to oat milk or coconut milk, or butter to flora) one at a time and see how it goes. Or you could start having a couple of vegan / vegetarian days per week and increasing it gradually. It doesn’t have to be done all at once, and all reductions ultimately help the overall picture.

In terms of recipes, there are lots of magazines for vegetarian food or online accounts posting great veggie / vegan recipes. I personally really like Meera Sodha, Ottolenghi, Schoolnight Vegan, Nora Cooks Vegan, Smitten Kitchen (not veggie but loads of great veggie and vegan recipes).

And why is this immoral? Or wrong, or something they shouldn’t do? What is the bad part of a lawyer behaving as though their client is innocent before their client has been through a trial to prove their guilt? Why do you have a problem with this?

Again, because you seem to be a bit selective about what you read. I don't have a problem with it, I'm pointing out it can be classed as immoral. Someone defending someone who has committed a serious crime.
Why do you have a problem with the person who puts a bolt of electricity through the head of an animal?

Do you genuinely see no contradiction in you saying that you don’t think defence lawyers are immoral, and then in the next sentence saying ‘why aren’t people talking about the immoral sides of jobs like defence law’?

Ok I'll rephrase. It can be classed as immoral, but I don't have a problem with it because it's seen as necessary.

in which case I want to know what your alternative model of criminal justice is.

I don't have one. Do you have an alternative to killing animals for meat? Because people will always eat meat.

It can be classed as immoral

By whom and on what basis?

Do you have an alternative to killing animals for meat?

Yes - veganism.

Isn't the point re lawyers is that the person doing this job realises that parts of it involve moral difficulties or what appears to be immoral elements, but that these are part of a larger system that works for the good?

There are people who do not like the idea of practicing criminal law personally because they would feel morally compromised representing people they know to be guilty. They understand why that is necessary but don't want to be involved themselves. There are also people who do not like the idea of legal representation and protection for such people at all, it's not unusual to see demands that certain rights of defendants be removed for example, to make convictions easier.

At slaughterhouses in the UK animals are checked by a vet before slaughter and the law requires that they are treated humanely. The people who work there are just doing a job which like many other jobs some people would find unpleasant ( anyone want to be a mortuary worker?)

@SadSisters

Thank you for your suggestions.

I will give it go but I do have non meat days already but frankly not as often as I think.

I definitely can’t go the full hog and say stop having leather goods though - so sorry about that as animals I know, will still be involved.

Small baby steps as with trying to be a bit more eco aware and compliant where possible!

@Goosefoot immorality means wickedness. It relates specifically to acts of wrongdoing. What part of criminal defence law requires those practicing it to perpetrate wickedness or wrongdoing?

People may well be squeamish about the idea of practicing criminal law. I fee that way about many jobs - I wouldn’t want to be a psychiatrist who treats pedophiles, or a PIP assessor, or a prison guard, or a plastic surgeon. But my personal views on whether or not those jobs align with my own ideas about what is good and productive and helpful have nothing to do with immorality.

At slaughterhouses in the UK animals are checked by a vet before slaughter

While I get why this happens there's something so, so dark about it.

Yes - veganism

Well that's as ridiculous as me saying people just shouldn't commit crimes, then lawyers don't have to do the job.

The vets must HATE it, surely?

By whom and on what basis?

By lots of people, I'm sure plenty of people who have been let down by criminal justice lawyers feel that they are very immoral. I've said several times why.

If we eat meat, animals have to be slaughtered. Abbatoir staff who do the killing are trained how to do it cleanly and quickly, far better than most of us could do. It's an efficient process and takes skill.

I feel sorry for the animals who are transported to the slaughterhouses and kept in pens more than the killing but the only alternative is to be vegetarian. I keep meat eating to the minimum but still enjoy it when I have it.

Deer hunting is a different matter. They have a good life then shot and killed for food. However not many of us can afford to buy (or even like), venison and fish caught and pinned immediately is expensive compared to cod and haddock.

I certainly don't think badly of 'slaughterpeople' but wish there was no need. More people are eating less meat and becoming vegetarians and I think that will continue. Until then we need the slaughterhouses.