AIBU to think that schools can't return to normal while social distancing remains?

[LockdownLoppy]

So many people want schools back to normal in September but how can they be? Even if social distancing was reduced to 1 meter it's still going to be a logistic nightmare for schools to manage and a long way from normal.
I have a child in year 10 and a child in year 7 who attends a special school due to autism and severe learning difficulties. They will both have a few check-in sessions in the last few weeks of term but it's going to be a world away from normal.
People are demanding the full reopening of schools but I just can't see how it can be done - do they just want to end all social distancing in schools and return to normal?
AIBU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

If there is even a possibility of schools opening in September they have to start planning for it now. Planning for next year would be starting to kick off in a normal year at this point, with no major changes.

Schools arent reopening because Parents want them to - school reopening so far has been (sadly) an economic based decision.

Yes, this. Aside from education, schools function as childcare. We have developed a society where in most families there is not a stay at home parent. If we are planning to have kids out of school or even in PT school for as long as there is risk - a moderate guess say two years - there would have to be wholesale restructuring of work. Parents doing work at home and childcare is not plausible long term for younger kids and working at home ft and teaching isn't great even with older ones. Online teaching has limits even with good resources for adults, much less children.

I think it would probably be a good thing for society to wholesale make a decision that they should support a parent to be home with kids for the long term - because if its just for the pandemic period that will disadvantage people in their jobs. But I think the chances it will happen that the state will change direction like this are small.

@Tabbymumz yes the numbers need to be looked at to make decisions but a school decision needs to be made before the end of term as to how the Gvt expects it should look and the expectation of schools.

Are you really thinking that it can be done in September just like that?

Matt Hancock just said the plan in September is too get all children back which is different from what we have now and guidance needs to be done to show how now

Wouldn't it be easier to just get the virus under control like other countries rather than all this faff?

I want children to go back. Not just mine, I worry a lot about domestic violence, neglect, mental health, and vulnerable children. And single parents trying to work, families stuck in flats - or worse temporary accommodation.

However, it's the government's job to make it safe to go back to school.

If it's not safe and it will lead to more people getting coronavirus and another, harder, longer, winter lockdown then I think we should wait until it is safe.

And I think the priority should be throwing everything at actively doing our best to stop it spreading.

Because once you get the virus under control we CAN "go back to (some kind of) normal."

Ok for those who don't already know this, schools plan in May time for the September time table. I assure you schools have already done this assuming a totally normal timetable (ours certainly have). Although I haven't seen it yet.

But as the government is literally giving us information as they release it to the public. That will most lickly have to be unpicked before September to accommodate whatever, is the guidance at the time. We won't know, don't think anyone can pridict that. SLT I think are working on possible part schooling with more online teaching.

But really who knows, things could get really bad again, we could all end up in lockdown again or maybe we'll be luckly and more children can go back to school. Really this is a total unknow, you can't compare it to anything (maybe Spanish flu ish, but then populations where different). So we are flying by the seat of our pants as they say.

In Jersey they’ve just announced they’re scrapping social distancing in schools

What are the daily number of new cases of Covid each day in Jersey?
I thought it was now pretty much single numbers daily now, or is that Guernsey?

Yes so hopefully if handled correctly by September we would be the same place to do the same thing?

@TabbyMumz actually I wasn't was? I'm sure I mentioned everybody, people with cancer not getting treatment. People who have had life changing ops cancelled, people who need to work, the vulnerable, people at risk of DV And vulnerable children. Also people with mental health issues.
I think you need to stop putting words into people's mouths. Of course people care about Covid, but we also care about others as well.

Depends on the classroom size and shape. KS1 class has had to reduce distance extremely reluctantly to around 1.5m and can fit 7 children in max. Usually 24. Rememer as well that staff need space so it's about fitting them in too.

I think it will go like this in Primary:
SD dropped in schools. Classes become bubbles for all the pupils. Staggered start times, First class in at 8.30 finish at 3, last in 9.30 finish at 4.30. This will allow for the actual logistics of both parents dropping off/picking up and being able to SD a bit, and prevent maximum mixing of bubbles at one single time. With staggering it will also allow less mixing at break times, toileting and lunch (which could be eaten in class).
Testing needs to be fast and done in school not 30 seperate families all going off to get one just in case they can be bothered or unable to get to a facility. Schools then would be able to isolate the single bubble and staff and then test the rest of the school. Obviously if a single child in a bubble tests positive that's everyone out for 2 weeks and parents will have to accept this.
Schools have had practice now on the logistics of how their schools have worked the guidance and this is just a ramping up of numbers.
My only concern is mandatory attendence, if we allow parents to make the call saying they don't think it's safe we run the risk of the vulnerable children we desperately want back not coming in. I think personally we need to say it's back to mandatory rules unless they have a proven medical reason.
It's not a perfect plan but better than most of what the Government has come up with.

Sorry, not sure why that didn't quote pp about dropping social distancing = doubling capacity of children in class.

Social distancing will be 1m for schools in NI in September.

@titbumwillypoo

I think it will go like this in Primary: SD dropped in schools. Classes become bubbles for all the pupils. Staggered start times, First class in at 8.30 finish at 3, last in 9.30 finish at 4.30. This will allow for the actual logistics of both parents dropping off/picking up and being able to SD a bit, and prevent maximum mixing of bubbles at one single time. With staggering it will also allow less mixing at break times, toileting and lunch (which could be eaten in class). Testing needs to be fast and done in school not 30 seperate families all going off to get one just in case they can be bothered or unable to get to a facility. Schools then would be able to isolate the single bubble and staff and then test the rest of the school. Obviously if a single child in a bubble tests positive that's everyone out for 2 weeks and parents will have to accept this. Schools have had practice now on the logistics of how their schools have worked the guidance and this is just a ramping up of numbers. My only concern is mandatory attendence, if we allow parents to make the call saying they don't think it's safe we run the risk of the vulnerable children we desperately want back not coming in. I think personally we need to say it's back to mandatory rules unless they have a proven medical reason. It's not a perfect plan but better than most of what the Government has come up with.

I agree. But it does put those staff who are vulnerable but not shielding right in the line of fire and I think in that situation guidance should be those staff do NOT come in...none of this wishy washy "work from home if possible" nonsense. If we are saying schools must run the risk with no protection in place, that should be the trade off there. Regular supply teachers should be employed instead, as they would be if a staff member was on long term sick - not a series of supply.

The problem with staggered drop off and pick up times is that there are staff with their own children and no way of being in two places at once, so there would have to arrangements made within individual schools to deal with that. (Currently my TA is doing PE with Joe to deal with the fact I have to arrive after the children!)

I reckon that by September , apart from some shielding people, there will be no social distancing. People barely managed a month of it, some didn’t manage a day. You only have to read the threads on here to see that many people exist in a parallel universe where COVID 19 doesn’t exist. Even the most law-abiding people are heartily sick of it, and are pushing the boundaries bit by bit every day. The opening of shops, the queues outside the Nike Shop, the BLM protests, the beaches - all these things have made people think “well if they’re not bothered, why should I be?”. There is increasing resentment felt by the distancers.

I reckon by September the only people practising social distancing will be the ones who are genuinely fearful of the virus, which will likely be fewer people than now. The more time that passes without getting ill, the less people will fear it.
So unless there’s a significant second wave, I think it would be farcical to socially distance at school when elsewhere it won’t be happening.

Teachers can wear masks if they want to.
They’re not “in the line of fire”!!

Lancrelady80, Totally right about vulnerable staff. Like I said it's not perfect, but if you combine it with things like better testing, local lockdowns, people working from home more if they can, SD in wider society then it is a step towards normality. The children in my school not engaging in home learning either through lack of technology or parental capability need to be back in. The bubble system has worked well but it would need the time differences to scale up. We all know that limiting to 15 throws up more problems than it solves so i'm just trying to have a can do attitude.

Currently my TA is doing PE with Joe to deal with the fact I have to arrive after the children!
It's little tweaks like that that will have to happen. Wrap around care is going to be the biggest obstacle in schools but maybe Boris will throw us some overtime so some non-teaching staff can watch the kids in their bubbles before and after school.

@Mintychoc1

Teachers can wear masks if they want to. They’re not “in the line of fire”!!

No, we can't. We have been told we are not allowed to. And everything points that masks are effective for other people, not so much the wearer. So we would need the children to wear them. And it has been explicitly stated that those who can't wear them safely, with primary aged children picked out as an example, should not wear them.

So no social distancing, prolonged exposure inside, no PPE, with a number of children and all the people they will have come across who are mixing in a variety of different ways...how is this in any way protected?

Titbumwilly...with you!

@titbumwillypoo @Lancrelady80 can I just say a big thank you to you and all school staff. The support you have given to vulnerable children, whether in school or not, has been amazing.
Also looking after key workers children so the country could keep moving and providing work for those kids at home. You've all done the best you can in a difficult situation. I thank you!

"it has been explicitly stated that those who can't wear them safely, with primary aged children picked out as an example, should not wear them."

Why are British children unable to wear masks, when primary children in other countries wear them ?

ft schools with masks is a reasonable compromise, if that reassures the teachers (and some parents)

Especially as ft schooling would require the 25% or so of teachers who are classed as "vulnerable" to return to class as well

• wouldn't be enough staff without this.

If we can get back ft schools for the 95% of kids who will wear masks, that's a win
Shielded teachers can teach those kids online, along with the shielded kids

Parents who can neither train their kids to wear masks, nor enable online learning, can do their own thing, as now, but shouldn't hold back all the others

Surely it's not about children dying - but transmitting the virus to others?

This. Too much "I'm alright Jack pull the ladder up" on this thread.

I should be shielding but have been told to go in so have been back in for 3 weeks now with no protection. I've ordered a visor that is child friendly and is a spaceman print on it and will be wearing it. Staff have been told not to but I have also told my head I feel unsafe and that I will not sign my risk assessment as it doesn't do enough to keep me safe so I will be doing along with a mask. I have said we are not doing enough as a team to keep each other safe and the children but that is largely ignored with a 'computer says no' answer.

Oddly enough with regards to face masks - children over 3 are required to wear them in hospital and do so too. Alder Hey and GOS have a policy that people are managing to deal with so why not in schools?

It's the government saying this about face masks.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings#personal-protective-equipment-ppe-including-face-coverings-and-face-masks

Greggers - thank you!