To suggest a campaign for a referendum on the death penalty for child abusers?

[TheVoiceOfReasonableness]

I’m a professional (I’m not going to reveal my capacity as it could be too outing) but let’s just say it is within the criminal justice system.

I have been involved with many cases of historic child abuse and child abuse images.

Although I could never voice this opinion publicly, because of my job, I really do think that we ought to consider the death penalty for child abusers.

The problem is, they can’t be cured.

The courses and “treatment” programmes that exist both inside and out of prison are geared towards “minimising risk” of committing further offences and are designed to give paedophiles “strategies” for avoiding “risky situations”. These only work if the paedophile is actually motivated not to hurt children.

The problem is paedophiles are extremely manipulative and are often quite intelligent.

They know what the offender manager (the modern term for a Probation Officer) wants to hear and may be saying all the right things while secretly still believing that there is nothing wrong with what they do.

The death penalty for child rape can easily be justified in my opinion. Arguably it is a worse crime than murder as the victim has to
live with the trauma of what has been done to them and it really does ruin lives permanently.

Now that we have left the EU (I voted remain, but every cloud has a silver lining...) bringing back the death penalty would be just as easy as having another referendum then passing legislation if the majority of the public want it.

We need not go down the American route of spending decades on death row- before we abolished it in the UK in the 1960s you got two appeals and that was it.

As for method- we had the quickest method with hanging and it would be all over in less than 15 seconds. There was no ceremony or last words, your cell was next door to the gallows you would be taken straight through- rope round neck, trapdoor opens, instant death from a broken neck.

Zero reoffending rate.

As for it being in humane and the right to life- innocent people including children die horribly from diseases like cancer all the time. 40,000 have died horribly from Coronavirus. I don’t think snapping the neck of a murderer or rapist who has abused a child to kill them instantly is that horrific TBH

I should add that the views of survivors, as expressed here, has caused me to re-evaluate my position on the issue and consider it afresh. Theirs is the most important view of all, in my opinion. Thank you for those who have contributed- you have been listened to by me and educated me.

Not convinced Chemical castration would have done much to deter my abuser but who knows?
I am surprised that the OP claims to be a professional within the justice system and yet is so ignorant about the law in relation to human rights (and in particular in relation to the EU).

OP are you familiar with the case of Carl Beech aka Nick?

That was such a shocking story and one of his victims died before Beech was exposed.
There was a thread about it on mn and incredibly some people still believed him after he’d been thoroughly proved to be a wicked fantasist.

TheVoice
I wonder if a way forward would be for people in your position, ie those who work with offenders to extensively consult with survivors?
I'm not saying this would be easy because this is such a difficult subject but it seems as if both groups can gain insights from the other if they can find a way of not taking opposing positions.
Because it's so emotive it's very hard to quell that knee jerk response.

I think, based on my own experiences, that the focus needs to be on bringing child abusers to justice in the first place, not just on how they are punished. The vast majority get away with hurting children, for a whole range of reasons but mainly because of a systemic belief that adults are the most important people in society and children are not 'people' in their own right, merely possessions of their parents. I think people need to be punished not only for abuse, but for ignoring abuse. For example, if your child comes to you and says "X did something to me the other day" and you reply "don't be silly, X would never do that" instead of asking follow-up questions and then reporting it ASAP, you should also be considered a criminal. I think looking at the roles other people besides the abuser play in child abuse is just as important, if not more, than sentences for the abuser. People don't take protection of children seriously enough. There needs to be a real improvement in how we treat and investigate claims of child abuse: always, always assume that the child is telling the truth, because the consequences of not doing so are often catastrophic. People witter on about how 'false accusations' ruin lives, but no-one ever talks about how being falsely accused of lying about abuse ruins your live, too.

*ruins your life

I think it's one thing to consider the death penalty a suitable form of justice and another again to suggest a referendum on the subject as a good idea.

I think the first is a moral line I would fight for our country not to cross (though you're entitled to your opinion) but for someone who works in criminal justice to suggest the second as a good idea - as if decisions to end someone's life can be made in a binary way by people without the benefit of any experience or expertise - is nuts quite honestly.

It would be understandable for victims to want their abusers dead but that doesn't mean the state should sanction it.

TheVoice
I'm wondering if your viewpoint is common amongst others in your field?
if it is perhaps we should think about what that tells us even if we don't agree with the viewpoint?

I think people need to be punished not only for abuse, but for ignoring abuse.

I agree with this. There were respected members of our church who knew about what was happening to us and didn't do anything.

Others had 'concerns' but didn't act on them, this came out when we started asking questions of people who were around at the time. They knew that there was neglect going on at the very least.

What was telling was that no one was horrified to think that my F was a paedophile, no one said that her couldn't possibly have done that.'

I think the problem is that people don't like getting involved in a family's private business. It makes it very unlikely that a child will expect to be believed or to be helped.

@MrsApplepants

I can’t agree with the death penalty. Maybe I would disagree if it was my child who was a victim. But I do think a complete physical castration, removing ALL the body parts involved would do a fair job. So both balls and knob chopped off.

A. And when he's later found not guilty, your solution is...? B. What about female abusers? C. You sound just as sick as they are, not to mention 500 years behind the rest of civilisation.

YABU.

Killing people is wrong, it's wrong when it's done by the state and it's wrong when it's done by individuals.

Medical castration doesn't work and having a baby myself, I can imagine if anyone dared touch him I would want them dead. But I'm on the fence TBH.

I’m a professional

Are you Jerry Springer?

I'm wondering if your viewpoint is common amongst others in your field?
if it is perhaps we should think about what that tells us even if we don't agree with the viewpoint?

THIS^^ l would really like to know the true opinions of many professionals who have extensive knowledge of these individuals.
A few years ago l read a report from a retired prison psycologist who had spent 30+ years with predominently child sex offenders.
He said that he had never met one who truly wanted to change or took full responsibility for their actions. In his opinion they were totally unable to be rehabilitated. It was truly shocking.

I would like the option of prison till death with no early release to be a given in every child sex case.Problem is our jails would be at capacity in no time. So what is left? I think more advancement in permanent chemical castration is essential.

Women are so forgiving and men still abuse, why?? because we forgive and accept. It would be interesting should the tables be turned, would the male be so tolerant should we have the strength to inflict something equally abhorent and do so with impunity?
I suspect not.

I would like the option of prison till death with no early release to be a given in every child sex case.Problem is our jails would be at capacity in no time. So what is left? I think more advancement in permanent chemical castration is essential.

But chemical castration doesn't stop them from targeting children, so I don't think it would make much difference.

Whole life terms do make sense, but it would be unworkable, because of lack of space. I think a lot of them would be murdered by other prisoners, though.

I once knew a Home Office official who had to witness a hanging in his official capacity. Afterwards the prison governor took them back to his office and they had a whisky. He said that a. they all needed it and b. just the smell of whisky ever since brought it all back and it was not something he ever wished to revisit. So not only is the death penalty a barbaric way for a civilised nation to behave but it causes stress and trauma to those in the system who have to enforce it.

I once knew a Home Office official who had to witness a hanging in his official capacity.

When the Royal Commission was researching the death penalty in the 1950s (as some other posters here have noted, it's good to have an understanding of the history and context of such matters ...) it had 2 main tasks. 1) to assess the validity of capital punishment in Britain as it stood, and 2) if it were to be retained, was hanging the best (as in most humane) method. Which required worldwide fact finding and witnessing executions by guillotine, firing squad, electrocution, and lethal injection/gassing.

The report recommended restricting the offences for which the death penalty could be given, and gave a thumbs up to long drop hanging.

It's interesting that the RC was set up because the Home Office had picked up an increasing reluctance for juries to find guilty in capital cases, and it led to a tightening of the circumstances in which the death penalty could be used. For all that, people still felt less and less comfortable about it. (The horror of Evans hanging probably being a key incident).

I don't care how guilty someone is of whatever offence. If I were on a jury and the sentence would be death, then I'd vote not guilty and deal with my conscience myself.

There's not really much to see with a long drop hanging anyway. Pierrepoint had it down to 8 seconds from entering the condemned cell to the neck breaking.

No need to reintroduce the death penalty. Just lock them up along with the general prison population and let it be known what they are in there for. The natural order of the place will soon assert itself and we can enjoy the best of both worlds. No paedophiles, and the moral superiority of not having the death penalty on the statute books.

No need to reintroduce the death penalty. Just lock them up along with the general prison population and let it be known what they are in there for.

You say something like this and still feel you have the moral authority to stand in judgement on others? Anyone else you would think it is perfectly acceptable to have tortured to death by mob justice (because you know very well that is what you are promoting)?

@Krieger I confess that I like the sound of that. I know it's wrong obviously but I don't particularly feel charitable towards people who hurt children. Especially since discovering that my DD2 was being groomed online a few months ago.

But the real problem isn't the sentences, it's catching these people in the first place, and then proving it in court.

No need to reintroduce the death penalty. Just lock them up along with the general prison population and let it be known what they are in there for.

So an even more barbaric practice that straightforward execution ? (Once again, total inability to acknowledge possibility of wrongful conviction is a prerequisite. I'm always wary of people who swerve facts ....)

I think they should be imprisoned forever. Although I feel they deserve to die and I hope that when they do it is painful, the death penalty is wrong under any circumstances for many reasons.

Where wrongful conviction is concerned, yes it happens, we all know that, but far more often these people don't get caught. The thing to focus on is getting it right.

OP we are better than murdering people. I say this as a survivor of CSA.

I think they should be imprisoned forever. Although I feel they deserve to die and I hope that when they do it is painful, the death penalty is wrong under any circumstances for many reasons.

Hardly very Christian - which matters are we are supposedly a Christian country (and there's lots of waffle about God in court ...).

That said, it's interesting that some opponents of capital punishment take the view that lifelong incarceration is a far worse punishment ("The gift that keeps giving" as Geoffrey Robinson said in a documentary) and that quick painless (unless you are in the US where some pain is necessary) death is far too easy.

Ian Brady was very vocal that he deserved to die, for what it's worth.