To think some men just can’t handle family life

[Dylaninthemovies1]

Over the past few years I’ve noticed quite a few friends and aquaintainces with young children split up with their husband/partner.

In nearly all scenarios the woman is literally left holding the baby. The man will only see the child(ren) when it suits them (once a week), keep changing the day they take the child, expect the mother to do all the parenting, avoid paying maintenance and try their best to make the mother’s life difficult.

I’ve noticed all the men seemed to have been very crap at being a dad even when they were with the mum; she’s left doing most of the childcare and housework even when working outside of the home too.

Am not saying all men are the same. But it just seems that so many men can’t handle family life

[2010Aussie]

It seems nowadays that, for many women, their priority is to have a child and thus to find a man who is prepared to give financial and practical support to achieve that.

It always used to be that you found someone you wanted to spend the rest of your life with, got married and then had children together. A lot of men are very immature and can't cope with the commitment and not being the centre of attention all the time. You have to be selfless to bring up children - putting their needs above yours.

[DisobedientHamster]

@Stannisbaratheonsboxofmatches

MessAllOver you’re right about that!

My ex definitely thought I should be a combination wife bot! He always seemed to be looking out to make sure he was getting his full money’s worth.

I dated one of those. He banged on and on about being 'old-fashioned' and made gestures like holding open doors for you but then went on about 'earning one's keep' and 'what each brings to the table' and 'equality'. He was a sexist prick who saw women as bots. The final straw was when he tried to order for me in a restaurant. 'And the lady will have . . . ' The lady's leaving, arsehole.

[Catastrofuck]

“ It always used to be that you found someone you wanted to spend the rest of your life with, got married and then had children together.”

Hmm no, I don’t think it always used to be like that. But it doesn’t matter - let’s just crack on with blaming women anyway

[MessAllOver]

@FurbabyLife. Well that’s their choice (the women). You don’t have to sacrifice anything. There is the option to skip the whole parenting thing and live for yourself. Nobody forces it on you.

Seems a bit harsh to do this at the point the children actually exist, though. I mean, what you're really suggesting here is putting them into care, surely....

Can't imagine how that conversation will go. "Sorry kids, your dad's f#@#d off with a younger model because he thinks his life was better when you didn't exist. And you're going into care because, guess what, your mum didn't sign up for the whole single parent thing and I want to live for myself".

Or is it just men who have a get out of jail free card when they decide they don't like the reality of parenting?

[Quackersandcheese3]

I’ve only recently started using Mumsnet and I’m truly shocked at some of the stuff I’ve read in recent weeks about shitty partners etc.
So I don’t think you’re being unreasonable.
However I’ve questioned how these women have allowed these things to happen? And for things to escalate to such a level. And you’re right they are often left holding the baby .
Just from my personal experience I had certain expectations /standards and made them clear to DH before we started down the kids route.

[QuestionMarkNow]

I did too Quacker. It didn’t stop DH from reverting to a 1950 set up as soon as he could....

You are right that some times it is about women not having boundaries that are strong enough. But then it’s also a case of being worn out by the constant refusal to step up. If you talk about divorce, it’s even worse.

[Piglet89]

Truth is a lot of women don’t like the baby stage because we are intelligent, sentient adults and a lot of it is repetitive, boring, lonely and exhausting. But society still frowns upon women who admit that because women apparently aren’t allowed to feel the same as many men do.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

All children should be raised by single mothers.

The boys grow up knowing how to self care and look after themselves and others, the girls grow up knowing what they are worth.
Both sexes grow up knowing how much hard work and sacrifice (and working together) is needed to have children.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I think that the long maternity leave in the UK (well, compared to say the US) is great for mother/child bonding but terrible for what it does to relationships.

Before kids most decent relationships are 50/50 or whatever split works in your circumstances. Then ML happens and suddenly she is at home all day and doing all the wifework, after all why pay a cleaner when your income is reduced and you are at home all day? Dinner is made by the person who is home first before kids, but on ML the woman is home first so she makes it and Mr Wonderful gets used to not having to do his 50% of the housework, never cooking a meal, getting his pants washed. And then gets stroppy when she goes back to work because they need the money, but doesnt want to keep up doing all of the baby/house care and providing regular sex.

Short ML is detrimental to parent/child bonding but probably keeps expectations more realisitic.

[Catastrofuck]

PyongyangKipperbang While I agree about what happens in terms of the split of housework during ML, I’m curious to know whether what you say about realistic expectations is reflected in the relationships of those who have children in the US where ML is shorter?

[Catastrofuck]

“ Just from my personal experience I had certain expectations /standards and made them clear to DH before we started down the kids route.”

How great that you were clear about your expectations, I assume he must have sufficiently reassured you that he would meet them. What would you have done if he had failed to meet them once a child had arrived? If you had split, and he had refused to see or support them, how would you have forced him? Do you have powers that other women don’t have that stopped you “allowing” this to happen?

[managedmis]

Why is nothing ever done? Why are there no laws or proper penalties.

^

Does anyone have the answer to this question?

[Piglet89]

I’m wrong. Non-payment apparently can eventually become a criminal matter, at least according to this article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/more-fathers-jailed-over-child-support-2265787.html%3famp

However, to answer the question about why the legislation is drafted such that this doesn’t happen very often, I think the answer is that the legislators and policymakers don’t often have to suffer the awful consequences of things going wrong, because they are majority male and women with partners who’ve stayed with them, rather than single mothers. Also, there’ll be a policy reason why it’s difficult to allow issuance of custodial sentences to too many men who repeatedly fail to pay child support: there are too many people in jail already and they’re overcrowded.

[HugeAckmansWife]

There is no political interest in enforcing this because its almost solely a 'womens' issue. They are blamed for not making better choices, blamed for not making a marriage work, blamed for wanting kids, blamed for not working whilst simultaneously caring for kids, blamed for needing to rely on UC due to the work / childcare issue. Thank god they broke the link between maintenance and benefits.. Even the cms says maintenance should not be counted on or factored into major life expenses unless it stops. As pp have said, there is no open condemnation of men who leave and pay nothing or cms minimum, which is pitiful in most cases or who see their kids rarely or 4-6 days a month. They COULD link cms to HMRC.. Far fewer people get away with tax dodging but there simply isn't the will to push it through because its an emotive issue with F4J and so on trotting out their 'poor menz' rubbish. I'm fortunate that I have a good, graduate career that pays enough that I can afford childcare and ex waited til both we're almost school age before buggering off but it's a huge scandal that the cms is so poorly run and supported.

[NewName89]

@Quackersandcheese3 I did too. And then when we got married he reverted to the 1950s, expecting me to give up my career so I can make dinner every night. And after numerous arguments, I asked him why he married a woman with a masters degree and a demanding job if he wanted a SAHM. He said "I thought you'd change once we were married". And that was pretty much the end of our marriage.

[MalamuteLover]

Yep had a baby and all was great on mat leave but once I went back to work and he had to do a bit it fell apart. Wouldn't drop kid at nursery. Spent most of the time in the gym. I'm a young woman I'm not living facilitating anyone else's life

[Woodmarsh]

Family life quite often isn't that enjoyable, I'm not sure its just a man thing. I don't have children because nothing I have heard from my friends or read on here makes me think it would make my life better.

I imagine there are a lot of men that go skiing with a woman wanting a child or feel its the done thing but decide the reality isn't for them

[Piglet89]

@HugeAckmansWife agreed. It’s a “women’s” issue. Same with the appalling state of post natal wards on the NHS. “Women’s” issue. Same with the fight to have an elective caesarean without a “good” reason. “Women’s” issue. I could go on.

[MessAllOver]

I wonder how many men would walk out on their children if women put their hands up and said, "You know what, I'm not going to be a single mother. I'm not putting up with this shit. I'm walking too."

Even if the end result was children put into care/up for adoption. The only reason it is socially acceptable for men to fail to parent is because women are around to pick up the slack. If a man says, 'My child lives with his mother and I only see him every other weekend because I'm so busy with work', that is viewed as fine. If a man were to say, 'My child is in a foster home, because neither my ex nor I can be arsed to be parent', there would be a few raised eyebrows.

If women refused to parent in the numbers that men do, the care system couldn't cope and the government would be forced to take action. But of course they won't...because they love their children. So they stick around.

[Woodmarsh]

@MessAllOver very true but I wonder how many of those men truly wanted kids in the first place? Not that that's an excuse but maybe both sides need to be more honest in general about what they want and are willing to do

[KaronAVyrus]

It’s interesting how many men seem to develop hobbies that require them to be out of the house at least one day every weekend
Golf
Cycling
Cricket
It’s all to avoid their family that they can’t be arsed with.

[HowFastIsTooFast]

Oh god. As someone ttc with a DP I haven't been with all that long some of these stories are very frightening (time is not on our side, so we have no choice but to go with our gut instincts and roll the dice now).

My XH made me an expert in red flags though and I've seen none at all in DP despite an intensive search. He does have a number of green flags flying though, in my opinion, which I guess is the best that anyone can ask for, without the luxury of a crystal ball?

I'm so sorry to those ladies who have been, and are still going through shit with deadbeat Dads x

[HugeAckmansWife]

Woodmarsh, I'm inclined to agree but that just means they are weak cowards who didn't have the guts to be up front and left the mother in the situation so many of us are in. My ex does say all the right things and was pretty hands on as a dad, though less so as they grew out if babyhood and started having kinds of their own. But ultimately he chose EOW contact and has none of the day to day parenting that he has the gall to call 'a joy and a privilege' whenever I ask him to do anything. He has a go at me for regarding parenting as a chore and tries to adopt the moral high ground that he looks forward to his time with them.. So would I if it was just weekends and holidays when I could let them eat crap, stay in pjs and do naff all!

[B1rdbra1n]

I thought you'd change once we were married
Or in other words 'I wanted to defeat you, make you understand that I'm the important one and you have to work for me'🙄

[FurbabyLife]

I think as a women having children is risky and life-limiting. So often women are the ones making the major sacrifices to their bodies, energy, time, career etc. While men’s lives remain relatively unchanged.

Women still bear the brunt of the childcare duties and are left raising the children if the man knobs off.

There is no way I’d ever risk putting myself in that position. Not for children! It’s not worth it.