Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How much do people make from the MLM schemes?

286 replies

StunnerNotReally · 13/06/2020 22:56

My facebook suddenly has loads of women doing these.
Body shop and Tropic and the perfume one.

OP posts:
DJTanner · 18/06/2020 18:28

It's definitely the recruiting that makes the big bucks for MLM bots. The two high earners that I know are both very good at talking to people, meeting people, and persuading people, so loads of people join their team.

Lemonmaid · 18/06/2020 18:54

Enough for the travel hunbot to go to the Maldives and several other exotic destinations over the next 12 months.

So tempted to sign up to it myself.

lockdownalli · 18/06/2020 19:28

Yeah I can't really see how anyone my friend has in her team has been exploited Confused

I know plenty of people who would drop that kind of cash for a bundle of beauty products - the fact they then get a discount/money back however it works would be a bonus. Where is the exploitation? I don't get it.

I am on a few S&B threads here and people regularly spend £150 at somewhere like Space NK just so they get a free gift. Are they being exploited too?

JasperRising · 18/06/2020 20:08

The exploitation is the women who are told this is a way they can earn a full time wage working from home on their phone and spend more time with their kids etc etc. Most of these women will never make any money, they may lost thousands of pounds. Yes, there are some for whom it is just a way of getting a product discount and who have friends who will do it as a hobby/personal discount (and Tropic does seem to have a reputation for attracting that kind of rep) but seeing their lifestyle will encourage other people to think they can achieve the same, not realising that it is supported by non MLM jobs or partners.

Thousands of women have had their lives seriously damaged by MLMs - either in terms of losing friends and/or financial loses. They are made to feel it is their own fault for not doing properly so most are too embarrassed to speak openly. That is only recently changing. So just because your friend may not be losing money don't kid yourself that the industry isn't damaging lives - the only outright winners are the people who come up with the product and persuade reps to take on all the risk under the guise of owning their own business, thus saving the company all those pesky expenses like NI, sick pay, maternity pay etc.

YouokHun · 18/06/2020 21:13

@lockdownalli There are some slight differences in the set up of different MLMs. The exploitation doesn’t happen to the end customer who is not also a distributor - they choose how they spend their money. There are those that sign up for discounts who count as recruits and may have to make a minimum amount of purchases in a given period, if they’re clear on that that’s up to them. However, the exploitation happens among those that sign up as distributors as it is not made clear to them about income. Often they are told what is possible (and yes it’s possible to make a lot of money in MLM) but they are not told what is probable - that around 1% do very well and usually +80% make nothing at all. The ones who do well do it through recruiting a large downline as it is not possible to make any kind of consistent living through product sales - this isn’t made clear. The rewards are always stacked towards recruiting. This isn’t clear when they sign up. Uplines don’t get rewarded on what their downlines sell, they get rewarded on what their downlines purchase - this is exploitable.

The whole business model is built on a dodgy premise - that endless chain recruiting is sustainable. If I join an MLM tomorrow and recruit six people and those six people recruit six each and then those 36 recruit six each and so on, it only needs about 13 rounds of recruiting and we’ve run out of world population - and what if everyone on the planet doesn’t want Younique mascara?! What normally happens is the recruiting breaks down and the people at the top of the pyramid jump ship and everyone else gets left high and dry and out of pocket.

Tropic is relatively new but it’s worth looking at some who have been around longer to see how they are declining and how many people get burned (usually those that can least afford it). Forever Living is good case in point.

The other problem is the culture of MLM. There is a man in the US called Steve Hassan who is a psychologist specialising in helping people leave closed groups/cults; he calls MLM “commercial cults”, because so much of the behaviour is the same: in the early days the love bombing and ego massaging, then the separating of the individual from their normal social groups by advising the sign up to keep away from negative people who “don’t want the best for you”. Then the push to monetise your friends and family, to be a product of the product, to see success as the gift from the MLM but any failure to succeed in MLM as your fault; the law of attraction manipulation which is rife. And then if you don’t keep up the momentum the gaslighting, the bullying, the cutting off. All of this is very prevalent in MLM. However, MLM can look like a benign bit of social selling on the side, nice ladies “sharing” product. It looks like harmless fun. It’s only when you watch the industry over years and when you’re involved in helping people who have been damaged by its culture and by the business model that you realise that this is a colossal scam But one with no clear victim (as the perpetrator and victim are often the same as the “opportunity“ is passed on).

Your Tropic friend may conduct herself well, she may make reasonable money through her downlines but you can bet some of the people she’s pulled in have got burned. But Tropic isn’t the worst, that’s is true.

www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/how-much-can-you-earn-with-mlm-tropic-skincare/

www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/how-much-can-you-earn-with-mlm-tropic-skincare/

lockdownalli · 18/06/2020 21:18

That's interesting Jasper thanks.

I suspect some are tarring all MLMs with the same brush though. I have a friend who is an Avon rep but don't know anything about the others mentioned aside from Tropic. You couldn't lose any money on that, never mind "thousands" as the only outlay is the initial pack you buy and that's all products you can use.

Maybe if some of the ones mentioned involve a large financial outlay with no immediate benefit that does sound dodgy. I am pretty sure I have never bought any of those other products though.

JasperRising · 18/06/2020 21:35

Those who lose thousands don't necessarily lose it in the initial outlay. It is those who try to make a full time business of it and who get persuaded that they need to go to training events (ticket, travel, food), self improver books, buy product for themselves (be the product of the product, try so you can recommend), buy samples because most MLMs don't provide them, buy stock for raffles and giveaways, buy stock for trade fairs, buy flashy clothes/handbags/cars to fake it til you make it, branded stationary, coffee and cake when you meet with prospective recruits (pre lockdown!). Obviously not everyone will lose thousands and some companies and some uplines encourage this type of spending more than others but that is how it racks up for people. And it isn't helped when other reps either pass of lifestyle purchased from other jobs as MLM funded or even go as far as photographing themselves in showrooms or hotel lobbies pretending they are buying a car/staying somewhere expensive. And some people are coached to do that (not saying your friends or anything just that this is why a lot of us want to see the back of the whole industry)

YouokHun · 18/06/2020 22:53

Also “losing thousands” is not a good barometer of catastrophe - where I was working in the NHS (psychotherapy, no whale music lockdownalli Grin ) the loses were much smaller (£200-800) but the consequences of losing that in such a deprived area were massive for the individuals concerned. These were not the people with lucrative other jobs or flexible careers, these were the people pinning their hope on MLM. From the outside it looks Like it could be the answer. These people with very little money and even less options in life were PRIME targets. The loses they made were along the way, not at the beginning, but playing to the sunk cost fallacy, “just spend another £50, success is just round the corner if you really want it”. Lots of those people were in Avon, Body Shop at Home, Younique and Juice Plus with remarkably similar outcomes. When looking across the board where income disclosures can be prised out of MLMs the picture is much the same, so I am inclined to tar all companies using the MLM business model with the same brush, despite some rather surface differences.

MrsAvocet · 18/06/2020 23:01

That's a great post YouokHun and its precisely why after reading this thread and a number of the articles that have been linked to, I have decided never again to buy anything from any of the MLM reps I know and to disengage from the whole thing. I thought I was being helpful by buying occasional cosmetics or candles but having looked at it in more detail I have concluded that I am in fact facilitating their exploitation.
I think the end customers are exploited a bit, as the products are often over priced and people tend to buy to placate friends or relatives rather than because they really want or need the stuff. The £85 or so worth of foot creams my DH recently bought me from our local Arbonne rep are actually quite nice, but not £85 nice. I imagine I could have bought something just as good for a tenner in Superdrug, but DH thought he was getting something extra special for me, and helping out the rep with her "new business" at the same time. So I do think she exploited him, but nowhere near as much as she is being exploited herself.
I read Elle Beau's blog earlier in the week, and subsequently have seen an MLMer I know using exactly the techniques that Elle describes being told to use, word for word in some cases. It is all so obvious now I know more about it. I can imagine exactly how her conversations with her upline are going. I don't really know the woman well enough to say anything directly - she's an acquaintance rather than a friend and I don't think she would listen to me - but I hope someone does before she loses too much. The really sad thing is that she has a job that should be valued by society and pay her enough to live on without getting sucked into this kind of thing. In fact most of the MLM reps that I know work in hospitals, schools, care homes or similar. They are not greedy women expecting to become rich, they are just looking to boost their income a bit to pay for a holiday, to fund their children's hobbies or similar, but instead they are likely to end up worse off. It stinks that they are in a position where that is necessary and it stinks that companies such as these are only too willing to take advantage of their situations. I know it isn't the worst problem in the world right now, but I've really had my eyes opened. It is wrong, and I am angry.
Thanks to those who have shared experience and information on here. Hopefully it will save at least some others being sucked in too.

BSintolerant · 18/06/2020 23:46

Well said @YouokHun. Smile

YouokHun · 18/06/2020 23:53

Thank you both. @MrsAvocet you’re right in all you say and it’s great that you’ve seen MLM for what it is. I just hope that people come across the many MLM threads on MN and find information that can just get them to pause and question what they might be signing up to.

AlexTheLittleCat · 21/06/2020 12:44

@BigGee

The car thing made me laugh out loud when I realised that you pay for it yourself. To drive around in a branded vehicle. You pay to advertise someone else's business. So, not only do you have your monthly goals to meet and exceed, but now you have a £500 car payment to find each month. That's some "bonus"!
Is this Arbonne?

The Door Knockers: Arbonne

GracieLane · 21/06/2020 12:48

The lucky ones break even or Make a small profit, but only by throwing everyone else they know under the bus

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 26/06/2020 13:15

I’ve upset the MLMbot on my Facebook by sharing a link to Elle Beau’s blog.

myusernamewastakenbyme · 26/06/2020 13:43

My Yooooooooonique bot is posting several times a day urging us to buy some foundation 'before stocks run out'....yeah right and also telling us her pre order list is almost full...lol....do they really think we believe this crap they post?

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 26/06/2020 13:48

Mine is now on the recruitment path. She commented on my post saying not all people’s experiences are the same but she’s following the same pattern as on the blog.

myusernamewastakenbyme · 26/06/2020 13:54

Mine is pushing the recruitment drive too....its like watching a car crash....literally no one comments or likes her posts...now the first pity purchases have worn off shes getting more and more desperate.

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 26/06/2020 14:00

I have so many gullible friends that signed up to this shit. I've ignored all their invitations. Ridiculous.

anguauberwaldironfoundersson · 26/06/2020 14:03

It's been a long time coming but I finally have an MLM bot on Facebook!

A family member (FM) is selling some slimming products and face creams but I honestly couldn't tell you what brand it is because it's never fucking mentioned. It's all "PM me hun"

What I'm finding hilarious is that FM, who I adore as they're the loveliest person, can usually just about string a Facebook post together but it takes a good deal of brain power to understand what they're saying because of all the text speak, spelling mistakes, poor grammar and zero punctuation. However now they're promoting this MLM you can just tell everything has been copied and pasted from a script because it's word perfect and I don't need to do mental gymnastics to understand.

FM is now posting 10+ times a day about spaces filling up fast on orders, flogging the last few numbers on the product raffle (desperately because no one seems to be buying them, I might add), sharing photos of real people who have been using the products and their health/complexion results (although the photos honestly look like they've been swiped from other legitimate businesses) but not editing the photos so you can see it's a screenshot and that they're with Tesco mobile and their battery is on 23% and, worst of all, telling blatant lies about how amazing and full of energy they feel after having one of their products three weeks ago.

This is what I mean (copied and pasted verbatim):

If u ever sat thinkin I need to loose weight an feel let bloated an cant sleep an need energy than take a look at these products rite here to help u feel an luk amazing
No exercise neededNo fad diet
Just by changing to one of are products can help in so many ways if u wind like more info an to place a order just DM me

anguauberwaldironfoundersson · 26/06/2020 14:05

Another thing I forgot to mention was that the only people liking their posts are the people on their "team" Confused

YouokHun · 26/06/2020 14:18

Classic stuff @anguauberwaldironfoundersson. Sad to watch really as she’s been tricked and probably can’t afford to lose the money that will be trickling away over the next few months. Your Hun friend needs a gaming licence to run raffles on social media, otherwise she is breaking the law as well as Facebook policy (though they’re crap at enforcing anything).

MyShinyWhiteTeeth · 26/06/2020 14:32

I've known many women that have been selling Avon for years and seem to be satisfied with the company. They give out catalogues at work. They have busy times such as before Christmas and business is poor over the summer. It is extra money used for treats and to supplement a regular income.

One woman bought 40 catalogues each time and would make about £100 profit every 3 weeks. She had to order, repack and deliver the products to her regular customers.

I knew a couple who did Kleeneeze and they didn't find it sustainable. They earned some money at first but the customers only ordered sporadically after initially buying quite a lot.

There was another kleeneeze type catalogue that a few people tried and found they were spending more on catalogues than they were making. Their Rep kept saying they needed to build the business up but they just couldn't find enough customers. They'd invested quite a bit and lost a few hundred pounds before they gave up. The failure was very much treated as them not putting enough effort in rather than the expensive products no one wanted.

anguauberwaldironfoundersson · 26/06/2020 14:50

@YouokHun as much as I was trying to convey my humour, you're right. They can ill afford to lose their money this way

Duckfinger · 26/06/2020 15:06

My colleagues are currently all Tropic consultants. Intelligent women you would think as we are a school, but no one of them started it sold the stuff then the idea now they are a team in about 3 levels ( but it "isn't a pyramid scheme they are illegal duckfinger you don't understand ")with nobody to sell it to.
I looked at the catalogue and the prices were ridiculous I offended them all by not believing it is better than my clinique stuff I have used for 20 years. "Don't I know it's all natural ingredients?"

HowFastIsTooFast · 26/06/2020 15:06

They're all nonsense. A friend of a friend is a salesperson for a high end cosmetics brand and I got roped in to attending a party where we got the whole spiel about the annual conference in Vegas and the hard sell on all this over-priced shit.

I found it quite funny when she was trying to flog us retinol for about £50 a bottle, when the one I use is about £4 from The Ordinary. Checked later; ingredients and bottle size identical Hmm