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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Very strange fence issue - is my mother being unreasonable?

74 replies

Ric2013 · 11/06/2020 21:15

My mother retired a few years ago and rents out her old house in England.

While she still lived in her house, she asked her old neighbour whether he owned the fence on his side and he said he owned it. Since my mother didn't own it, she left it alone.

New neighbour has decided he thinks the fence may be dangerous for his kids and says we aren't sure who owns it. Since legal boundaries do shift, my mother and I discuss the likelihood of the old neighbour being mistaken. All the evidence on the ground suggests that the fence was very probably the neighbour's and there is nothing written down, but my mother is not the one making a fuss, even though she thinks the neighbour owns the fence. My mother's tenants have expressed no opinion on the fence.

Neighbour says he needs a high close fence as he wants 100% privacy over his entire garden "so his children can play naked if they want to" (despite the fact that he has a further section of garden behind a massive hedge that is private).

The new neighbour has suggested they pay halves for a new fence and obtained a quote that is completely out of my mother's budget. Mum has said she cannot afford it, and she doesn't need a high fence anyway. I suggested they could go halves on a shared hedge on the boundary (they could each maintain their own half that way). New neighbour wasn't interested and again suggested going halves on a new fence of a design he thinks is suitable. Mum doesn't care what he does, provided he pays for it and doesn't encroach on her land.

The way I see it is that they cannot possibly compromise. My mother's neighbour has no interest in her clematis and can't be expected to contribute towards it, so why should she contribute towards building a fence she doesn't want?

I'm obviously biased as it's my mother we're talking about, so would appreciate any thoughts others may have.

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 11/06/2020 21:19

Tell him if he wants a new fence built on his land he's welcome to get one, but he will be paying for it.

Seeline · 11/06/2020 21:20

Is there nothing on your Mum's deeds? They sometimes show which boundary you are responsible for. Even if she is responsible for that boundary, she is under no obligation to replace a fence when there is nothing wrong with it.

If ND wants s new fence, he needs to pay for it.

amylou8 · 11/06/2020 21:20

Is the current fence in need of replacement? I know he said it's dangerous for his kids, but is that because of disrepair or because he thinks something different would be more suitable? If it needs replacement I would offer to pay half on a like for like basis, if he wants an upgrade he can pay the extra. If there's nothing wrong with the fence then as long as your mum is happy, he can replace it, bit at his expense.

DogBowlSpaghetti · 11/06/2020 21:23

If it were your mothers fence she has no obligation to ensure it suits the neighbours very specific requirements.

If it’s not your she has no obligation to ensure it suits the neighbours very specific requirements.

Legal Responsibility for boundaries does not shift. But that’s irrelevant here.

slipperywhensparticus · 11/06/2020 21:27

He wants a new fence he pays

Nottherealslimshady · 11/06/2020 21:29

If he wants a new fence then he can pay for one. She needs to tell him she wont be contributing to his new fence and leave it there.

EnidsCrochetCorner · 11/06/2020 21:35

If he wants a new fence he can put one on his own land just inside the boundary.

The only way to definitively tell who is responsible is to look at the deeds to see if there are any markers denoting ownership or it may be referenced in writing. Do not rely on the old fence post on whatever side of the fence or nicest side to the neighbour crap.

However, just because someone is responsible for a boundary doesn't mean there has to be a fence or hedge on that boundary unless it specifically states there should be.

Mine states all boundaries are shared but that is because the whole estate is 25ish years old and it specifically says all walls and fences between properties and estate roads must be maintained.

Neighbour wants a new fence, he pays for it. Get the tenants to take photos of the garden and the current fence now in case there are any issues going forward.

And if you want to lose a few hours of your life looking into the weird and wonderful legalities of boundaries, fences, trees, rights of way etc wander over to GardenLaw forum. It can be eye opening Grin

Purpleartichoke · 11/06/2020 21:38

If it is her fence, she can just tear it down and have no fence going forward.

ShadowMane · 11/06/2020 21:40

@Purpleartichoke

If it is her fence, she can just tear it down and have no fence going forward.
yeah - this!
Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 11/06/2020 21:44

He can not demand your mother pay half, or any amount of money for a fence.

Wewearpinkonwednesdays · 11/06/2020 21:46

If it belongs to your mother, she has no obligation to pay for a new one, likewise if the fence belongs to the neighbour. Even if it's a shared fence, I don't think the neighbour could demand your mother pay half.

gamerchick · 11/06/2020 21:48

He picks, he pays. If it's your mother's responsibility then she picks to make the thing safe. That's all.

Ric2013 · 11/06/2020 21:54

@amylou8

Is the current fence in need of replacement? I know he said it's dangerous for his kids, but is that because of disrepair or because he thinks something different would be more suitable? If it needs replacement I would offer to pay half on a like for like basis, if he wants an upgrade he can pay the extra. If there's nothing wrong with the fence then as long as your mum is happy, he can replace it, bit at his expense.
Well, it is a right old state, particularly on the neighbour's side where you can see all the posts and bodged repairs to the posts, bits of angle iron etc. Her side isn't too bad, though it's unusual because it's covered in corrugated iron instead of timber boarding.

If it were my mother's fence, she would have replaced it years ago when she still lived there, but she wouldn't have built a new one one like-for-like. Most likely she'd have put a low fence in. She's perfectly happy for the new neighbour to do whatever he wants with the fence, give that he owns it, but she can't afford to pay nearly £900 towards it.

If he were to remove the fence entirely, she'd feel the need to spend maybe £200 on a low wire fence, so she does benefit to that degree and I think she's inclined to offer that much. She'd have no say on what the new fence looks like and wouldn't have the right to grow anything up it as it still wouldn't be hers.

The fence on the other side of her garden is hers, and her boyfriend repaired any suspect bits before they moved abroad (without asking the neighbour for money) so that's in good nick, and she's quite happy to foot the bill when she's on the other side of the same situation.

OP posts:
cabbageking · 11/06/2020 21:55

You may wish to suggest that you will take responsibility for the fence and have decided to remove it and replace it with small holly bushes that will in about 5 years provide a lovely barrier.Grin

If the cost is half and half it should be like for like. No doubt some panels may be ok. If he wants a higher fence then he needs to pay for it.

saleorbouy · 11/06/2020 21:57

In general if the fence posts are on your side it's your fence, the neighbour would get the smooth side without posts. If you are unsure check the deeds, ownership of boundaries should be marked on. You could check with the otherside neighbour (assuming there is one) as you would normally only own the fence/ hedge on one side of your garden so by elimination this might help.
If a fence is provided and adequate there is no need to pay for an upgrade. New neighbour could erect a fence to his requirements on his own land at his expense.

saleorbouy · 11/06/2020 22:01

In some areas and estates there are by-laws on fence heights. Normally fences over 6ft require planning approval.

Jaxhog · 11/06/2020 22:13

If it isn't her fence, then she needs to do nothing.

If it's her fence, as long as it isn't likely to fall on someone or has dangerous bits sticking out, she still doesn't have to anything.

We had a similar 'discussion' with our neighbours. They build a fence they liked on their side of the fence.

Ric2013 · 11/06/2020 22:14

Hi. Both houses are over a hundred years old, the road was built up at different times and that there is nothing in writing, except the Land Registry deeds which do not show ownership of the fences.

Someone suggested gardenlaw, and that's several hours of my life I've already wasted, strangely enjoyably. Trying to guess what may have happened from looking at the fence and how it fits into the surroundings, it certainly doesn't look like my Mum's fence.

In any case, since the neighbour is dead set on he has to have a high fence, I don't think who owns it is relevant, except that if my mother owns it, she has to make it safe, and would happily do so. The reason she hasn't claimed it is because she doesn't think it is hers, and in any case, if she put a new fence in she liked in its place, he'd only end up saying it isn't private enough and having to put to his own up on his side, so she'd basically have just stolen a strip of land from his garden.

OP posts:
ScrapThatThen · 11/06/2020 22:15

A neighbour tried to insist MIL paid for a tree to be reduced, a huge quote from his 'mate'. She looks outwardly 'well off' but for years has lived on a tiny income and although she felt she 'would have to pay' she was hugely stressed. A visit from BIL to say 'why are you pressuring a pensioner to pay for a job that is only benefitting you' sorted it out and they have actually been really thoughtful towards her since.

Iggi999 · 11/06/2020 22:17

Does your mum really not want a fence between her and next door's (naked) children?

trilbydoll · 11/06/2020 22:19

We end up paying for every fence in ever direction in every house we live in because no-one else cares about them!

He has a choice, it's either his fence and he can get on and sort it or it is your Mum's fence and she'll sort it as she sees fit. No messing about going halves, someone claim the fence and proceed from there. Much easier.

Ric2013 · 11/06/2020 22:22

@Iggi999

Does your mum really not want a fence between her and next door's (naked) children?
I think that was his way of trying to get her to appreciate the advantage of the kind of fence he wants. Seemed a strange thing to mention.
OP posts:
domesticslattern · 11/06/2020 22:24

Personally I would have thought that a sensible height non-rickety fence between properties was a normal thing to have and would enhance the value of your mother's property, as well as its security. Try to avoid neighbour disputes which you have to declare when it comes to selling, they could cost her much more than £900...

Cupidity · 11/06/2020 22:28
  1. if it's not her fence she doesn't have to pay.

  2. how high is he planning on this new fence to be? Will it impact the amount of sunlight/shade her garden gets? If it will then I suggest she contests the height of the fence (lots of places require planning consent for fences above a certain height).

VelveteenBunni · 11/06/2020 22:31

Your mother shouldn't be a LL if she cannot afford basic maintence.

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