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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Very strange fence issue - is my mother being unreasonable?

74 replies

Ric2013 · 11/06/2020 21:15

My mother retired a few years ago and rents out her old house in England.

While she still lived in her house, she asked her old neighbour whether he owned the fence on his side and he said he owned it. Since my mother didn't own it, she left it alone.

New neighbour has decided he thinks the fence may be dangerous for his kids and says we aren't sure who owns it. Since legal boundaries do shift, my mother and I discuss the likelihood of the old neighbour being mistaken. All the evidence on the ground suggests that the fence was very probably the neighbour's and there is nothing written down, but my mother is not the one making a fuss, even though she thinks the neighbour owns the fence. My mother's tenants have expressed no opinion on the fence.

Neighbour says he needs a high close fence as he wants 100% privacy over his entire garden "so his children can play naked if they want to" (despite the fact that he has a further section of garden behind a massive hedge that is private).

The new neighbour has suggested they pay halves for a new fence and obtained a quote that is completely out of my mother's budget. Mum has said she cannot afford it, and she doesn't need a high fence anyway. I suggested they could go halves on a shared hedge on the boundary (they could each maintain their own half that way). New neighbour wasn't interested and again suggested going halves on a new fence of a design he thinks is suitable. Mum doesn't care what he does, provided he pays for it and doesn't encroach on her land.

The way I see it is that they cannot possibly compromise. My mother's neighbour has no interest in her clematis and can't be expected to contribute towards it, so why should she contribute towards building a fence she doesn't want?

I'm obviously biased as it's my mother we're talking about, so would appreciate any thoughts others may have.

OP posts:
cosmo30 · 12/06/2020 12:37

Haven't read the full thread btw so apologies if this has already been mentioned

SoupDragon · 12/06/2020 12:38

I thought that if there was no mention of ownership/responsibility in the deeds the fences are all shared.

The "on the left/nice side/fence posts" things are all a bit of a red herring.

Waveysnail · 12/06/2020 12:39

If it's only one side £900 seems alot. Does he want her to go halves to get his whole garden fence?

cosmo30 · 12/06/2020 12:43

Sorry just remembered, on the conveyance plans whatever was our responsibility was marked with a T (which was the fence in our case)

Standrewsschool · 12/06/2020 12:46

Can your mum get a couple of quotes for fences?

fence cost calculator

Or use this as a guide?

1forsorrow · 12/06/2020 12:52

I live in a detached house in a small cul de sac. I'm not responsible for the fence on either side, both neighbours are responsible for both sides plus the rear fence, I am only responsible for the rear fence. The houses were build at the same time, by the same builder and are 30 something years old. No one understands why it was done like that but it was. Both neighbours are unhappy about it, I just smile and sympathise and leave them to it.

Fences are interesting.

Durgasarrow · 12/06/2020 12:59

Your mother does not have to pay anything toward a fence that will be on your neighbor's property, and as another poster said, it is proper for the "good" (i.e., smooth) side to be facing her (both for neighborliness and so that if repairs are necessary, they can be made on the neighbor's side, not on hers.) Her neighbor does not have to consult her if he wants to build a fence up to six meters I believe in the UK? But I do not think he is allowed to build anything higher. Her gift to him is that he doesn't need to consult her about style, etc. His property, his fence.

SoupDragon · 12/06/2020 13:05

@Waveysnail

If it's only one side £900 seems alot. Does he want her to go halves to get his whole garden fence?
Has the OP said how long the garden/length of fence is?
recycledteenager24 · 12/06/2020 13:22

he wants his dc to be able to play naked ? fair enough, i guess your mum's house [and cf neighbour] aren't over looked by other neighbours then.
also as a matter of interest, if total privacy is needed the fence would have to be higher than upstairs windows Confused sorry if i'm being thick it's lockdown brain. Smile

mumwon · 12/06/2020 13:50

@recycledteenager24 maybe its because he wants a hot tub but as you say if neighbour lives in house - is he expecting them to block the bedroom windows??? (Ha that's 2 new arguments to lead from!) Grin

ElsieMc · 12/06/2020 13:53

We live down a private road owned by a neighbour and shared by four properties, two of which he owns. We have a right of way as does other neighbour. He lets out his second house.

He wanted to undertake resurfacing to the road but he dug it up having services routed to his new barn conversion. He wanted to share the costs three ways. It was large amount and before we purchased, I got this all checked out via our solicitors and to cut a long story short, we had no maintenance responsibilities.

Road owner went mad with us and other neighbour. He told us our deeds were wrong. I pointed out he couldn't possibly know this. I asked him who owned the road as it was their responsibility. I knew full well he owned it and he went very vague. I said that as he had chosen to dig it all up to benefit himself then he could pay to put it right.

He asked what would happen if pot holes appeared so I just told him I would fill them in. They never have. Basically he wanted us to pay for his mess.

Your dm's neighbour is the same. He wants your mum to pay for the fence he desires to maintain his privacy. This is not her problem. I strongly suspect the fence is his. He then tries to muddy the waters by mentioning his children playing in the nude. All the more reason for him to protect their modesty then.

Tell him to jog on, but more politely. He is a piss taker and it wont end here.

Bibijayne · 12/06/2020 13:56

If the fence is dangerous, it can be taken down. But your mother is not obliged to put in a boundary marker if his choosing. She could just put a chain link in if she wanted. If he wants a specific fence, he needs to pay for it.

NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite · 12/06/2020 14:11

"Her neighbor does not have to consult her if he wants to build a fence up to six meters I believe in the UK? But I do not think he is allowed to build anything higher."
6 metres high? Shock
That's as high as the house.

Ric2013 · 12/06/2020 14:19

@Cherrybakewellard

On the deeds they will be two // on the boundary lines which indicate if it's your fence. Happy to take a look if you would like advice.
Hi. Thanks for the offer. However, I have looked at the Land Registry deeds for both properties and there are no markings of any kind on either. My mother has tried to obtain pre-registration deeds from her mortgage firm, but they don't have them (neighbour says he is in the same situation). She is now waiting for an "official copy" from HMLR to arrive in the post, but I think it's going to be exactly as undetailed as the kind you can get on the HMLR website.
OP posts:
YouDirtyMare · 12/06/2020 14:26

@VelveteenBunni

Your mother shouldn't be a LL if she cannot afford basic maintence.
Oh give over its not her fence as far as she's aware
YouDirtyMare · 12/06/2020 14:28

I would email him that you will not be paying for any part of the fence . leave a paper trail

InspectorCludo · 12/06/2020 14:51

@VelveteenBunni wins stupid comment of the day award.
I’m a LL. My tenants recently asked me to pay £1,000 towards the cost of their new net curtains. I declined. Not because I can’t afford to be a LL but because I don’t deem that cost to be reasonable.
In this case the LL does not believe, to the best of their knowledge, that they are the owner of the fence and therefore do not have a responsibility to pay towards the cost of replacing the fence. Notwithstanding this, the neighbour wants to put up a fence costing £1,800. This doesn’t constitute basic maintenance.

Offering £200 towards the cost because of the uncertainty regarding ownership is more then reasonable in my opinion.

Ric2013 · 12/06/2020 15:04

@NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite

"Her neighbor does not have to consult her if he wants to build a fence up to six meters I believe in the UK? But I do not think he is allowed to build anything higher." 6 metres high? Shock That's as high as the house.
Ha ha. Higher than the house, even. I think it's usually 2 metres, which is about 6ft 7in, hence the number is correct, just the unit is wrong!

@recycledteenager24 Yes, it is odd, especially when you consider that the houses are uphill from the back gardens and that the far ends of the gardens are therefore overlooked.

@SoupDragon Given that his garden is massive and wraps around the bottom of my mother's house, it's probably about a 16 metre run. The price is for a concrete post, concrete gravel board, and (presumably) timber panel fence. It might even be the market price for a job well done.

The issue here isn't really the price he's been quoted, it's the fact that I feel he's trying to manipulate her into paying for a fence that she doesn't care about one way or the other. Trouble is, he's doing it very badly and very obviously as one time it's to stop her tenants' "not nice" (they're actually very friendly - I've met them) dogs from going into his garden (but there's a fence halfway down my mother's garden and the dogs are kept in the top end). The next time, the fence is needed to prevent his children from wandering into her garden and to protect her tenants' privacy (who haven't mentioned the matter).

I think she might like to pay a contribution (but I also think, if it were a council house, would the council pay towards a neighbour's fence???) and also that the contribution should reflect the actual saving she makes by not having to put her own fence up, not half of what he wants?

OP posts:
steppemum · 12/06/2020 15:29

So, first check the deeds (are the deeds exactly the same as the land registry document? Or are there extra bits on deeds?)
if they are not clear write a letter saying:

  1. It was always my understanding that your house was responsible for that fence, as I am responsible for the other fence in my garden.
  2. If I am responsible for that bondary, I can chose not to have any fence at all along that boundary. That is now my choice.
  3. If you want to put up your own fence along your side of the boundary, at your expense, that is entirely up to you, as long as it stays withint the legal limit of 2m.
steppemum · 12/06/2020 15:34

I missed your last post about her tenants dogs.

It is the responsibility of owners to keep their dogs in, so her tenants do need to have a secure space for the dogs.

SoupDragon · 12/06/2020 16:00

The issue here isn't really the price he's been quoted

I know, but other posters were aghast at the cost whilst having no idea how big the garden is!

Ric2013 · 12/06/2020 19:16

@steppemum

I missed your last post about her tenants dogs.

It is the responsibility of owners to keep their dogs in, so her tenants do need to have a secure space for the dogs.

Agreed, and there is: her garden is split into two due to the slope of the land with a fence and gate half way down to stop people falling off the retaining wall/down the steps. I don't think the tenants ever let the dogs loose in the lower bit where the dodgy fence is, but if the neighbour chooses to remove the fence just to make a point, then there would be a problem if the tenants want to do this.

Her contribution would reflect the money saved in not having to put her own fence up. It may not be her duty, but sometimes it's worth helping tenants out.

OP posts:
Ric2013 · 19/06/2020 13:19

Hi. Just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this discussion. A lot of good ways of looking at it came up and quite a number made it into my mother's final reply.

My mother's partner looked into the cost of repairing the existing fence and reckons it to be about £200 (let's say the real cost would be £400 because I know what he's like), so Mum's not inclined to get involved in cost sharing as it feels neighbour was trying to rip her off by getting her to pay well in excess of the cost of maintenance (of a fence that isn't hers anyway).

We finally drafted an email between us in which we said, very politely, that it's his fence. He's not interested in paying towards my mother's hedge just as she isn't interested in paying towards her neighbour's fence, so why doesn't everyone just do what they want in their own gardens and pay for it themselves? If he wants access to do some of the work from my mother's side, she's asked him to give her plenty of warning (because, obviously it's best if someone's there, especially with it being a rental).

Hopefully this will prevent him from making any further unreasonable requests without him thinking that we don't like him. Perhaps one day we'll get to know him better and our opinions will change. Who knows?

OP posts:
MargotMoon · 23/06/2020 19:21

Sounds like a sensible and measured response! Hope he gets the hint

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