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Pro Women, Not Anti Trans - Why Biology Is Important.

83 replies

IStandWithWomen · 11/06/2020 13:45

This is a very long thread

Many people seem to be question why women are defending themselves against the idea that 'people' have periods rather than women, as is biologically correct. There is a long argument as to what defines a woman in terms of gender, and I'm still to find any of them that equates to an all inclusive term. I have never understood what it means to be a woman, and have yet to find anyone that can eloquently explain what makes us different from men in a non-biological sense.

I would say I've never noticed a difference between women and men, but of course that is untrue. Sadly, the only time I have noticed that I'm different from boys and men is through negative experience. Being told that there was something inherently wrong with me not liking playing with dolls, or always insisting on cutting my hair short, enjoying video games over make up. The name calling starts from a very young age - not a little girl, a tomboy, one of the lads. Get to your teenage years and the questions really begins. Are you a lesbian? Are you actually a boy? Not insults, but a clear message from society that 'you are not what is expected from a woman'. It works both ways - boys who like musicals, Barbies or dresses and makeup must be gay or girly. They cannot just be objects that humans like, they have a gender or sexuality and therefore that's the box you must fit in.

Older still, and the dark realisation that society thinks they own your female body. 'Cover up' your body? You're a prude, don't you want boys to like you? You're only young once! Show too much skin, what a slut, winding the boys up. Get sexually attacked? You were obviously asking for it. Get pregnant young? Forget about having a life, you are now nothing but a statistic. The man who impregnated you run off? Well what did you expect, he's young and needs to go and establish his life and career. He can always start again later. You're the stupid girl who ruined her life.

Choose not to have kids? You must be a cold hearted monster, all women want babies really! All female celebrities under 50 - 'oh is that weight gain or a bump we see?' screams the tabloids and they photograph them every 5 minutes to find any imperfections. After 50? Look how old they're getting! How much work have they had done? Why do they look their age? It's not OK for a 70 year old woman to look 70, how ugly.

Even day to day we are reminded our bodies and anatomy aren't our own. Another country denying contraception and abortions for women, punishing them for being raped, little girls being mutilated just for the fact they are born biologically female. Another day, another story about a woman being murdered by a man. Her fault, she walked off by herself, she made him angry, she should have known better. I have never met a woman who hasn't been physically or sexually intimidated by a man in her life. Most have many experiences. #MeToo.

This isn't new. The treatment of women as a lesser human has been evident since records exist. It is part of our lore, it's in our religious text. Women belong to men. So we have stood up and said no, our bodies are our own, we have our rights. There is no definition to being a woman other than our biologically sex, which needs to be recognised so we have control over our menstruation, our pregnancies and abortions if we choose to, our rights to say no to sex, no to forced marriage, our right to say 'I dont feel well, and I won't have a doctor dismiss me as hysterical or having typical lady-problems'. Our biology is important, it's our very lives. It's been used to control us and kill us. We have a right to say it belongs to us now.

To be able to define our own biologically sex is fundamental in our fight for equality in this world. It is what has been used to keep us down throughout history, so when people like JK Rowling owns periods as a female function then you don't have the right to shout her down. We have earned our right to say 'this is our anatomy'. When men such as Daniel Radcliffe say 'trans women are women', they are dismissive of trans men who still have and had suffered all of the above as biologically women. When Eddie Redmayne says TWAW, he chooses to forget that a woman risked her life with her female biology to give him children or in fact to give him life. If all trans men are men, then when are men like him going to start dying to give life? We've made no progress, the men who used to deny us equality are now the ones demanding we share our female-ness with them.

I want to live in a world where women, men, trans women and trans men can all live equally without this fighting and demand for biological appropiation. People should be able to live their lives without any risk of threat against the person they are. Instead it has decided into another social war, where again women are again being told to shut up and that our opinions do not matter unless we agree with the masses. We cannot say our bodies are female without being threatened, demeaned, have men apologise on our behalf for our statements.

Am I being unreasonable? Possibly, but I have tried to be on the fence about this matter for years. I can only speak for myself, but the last few days I have been so angry. I have had experiences in my life, sad and terrible ones, that have only happened because I am a woman, that no male could ever understand. To have them denied as a female experience is infuriating and frustrating. Don't tell me to be quiet, don't apologise for me or tell me I'm wrong. You don't own me or my biology.

OP posts:
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 11/06/2020 16:43

Great post! Well said.

If only people would realise, ALL people, that gender is the box that constrains us ALL, and makes such a mess of things, then maybe we could get around to dismantling gender entirely and leaving us to behave and do things the way we want to - regardless of our sex.

This is a good article, by the way thepostmillennial.com/jk-rowling-transphobic-youre-just-sensitive - I have posted it elsewhere today but it deserves another outing. This transwoman totally gets it and explains that, without biology, there would be no need for transing at all, so biology must be a reality. In fact, if there were no gender constructs, there would be no need for transing either because one wouldn't be pigeonholed into one thing or the other.

niveaessential · 11/06/2020 16:43

Can I ask a possibly rude question?

Why do transgender people call themselves trans? why not just call yourself a woman or a man?

honestly not trying to cause sh*t but I've always wondered about it

Barearseloverofthigh · 11/06/2020 16:49

IStandWithWomen 👏👏👏

Brilliant post.

ChattyLion · 11/06/2020 16:53

Standing with you too IStandWithWomen

Winesalot · 11/06/2020 16:56

@niveaessential

Can I ask a possibly rude question?

Why do transgender people call themselves trans? why not just call yourself a woman or a man?

honestly not trying to cause sh*t but I've always wondered about it

I think that they realise themselves that you cannot really change sex only how you present.
CrazyToast · 11/06/2020 16:56

This isn't a 'feminist' issue, though. If you can't talk about your experiences as female, or be considered as female legally, then that is a problem for all females.

Some people think that any discussion of this, is anti trans. In that way, we fully understand that discussion can be considered anti-trans. However, we dispute that. We are trying to find a way forward which is not anti-woman OR anti-trans.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 11/06/2020 17:02

Issues that concern many posters about trans ideology could impact most MN users either because they themselves are a woman, they may be parents to a young girl or have a mother. All of which are female. So it's more accurate to say it's a female issue, but yes many of us are feminists who centre women and girls in our brand of feminism and a large chunk of Twitter would like to see us die horribly for daring to think this.

Ethelfleda · 11/06/2020 17:02

So well written, OP. Really eloquently put.

I am an egalitarian and believe in equal rights for everyone. But it seems that misogyny is by far the most accepted form of discrimination.

Can you imagine if white men the world over suddenly demanded to identify as a different race? If we had white men saying they ‘feel black’ and that black people aren’t allowed to question it without it being discriminatory... and that they can now take black people’s places, awards, own their culture etc? There is no way the world would stand for that. And quite rightly so.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 11/06/2020 17:02

Also meant to say, excellent post OP. Grin

Cutangle · 11/06/2020 17:13

What concerns me is the amount of women in their twenties and thirties who are feminists and proudly so who have absolutely slated JKR and any who support her (including me). I’ve had to leave two groups today, asked if my account had been hacked and unfriended by quite a few.

I was clear that I support anyone who wants to live as any (or no) gender. I would always have their back if they were threatened or being discriminated against. However I don’t think that should be at the expense of women’s safety and rights. These feminists that are so loud in their opinions don’t seem to realise they are pushing the opinion of an extremely small minority of men.

They are trying to erase our own discriptors of ourselves. Why can’t we be women (which we are) and they be trans women (which they are). Why do we have to become cis women so they can become women?

nellodee · 11/06/2020 17:21

This isn't just a feminist issue, it's a women's issue. This is mumsnet. Every mum is a woman. Every last one.

Ethelfleda · 11/06/2020 17:53

What disgusts me the most is how many of the horrific replies to JKR were along the lines of 'suck my lady dick'. It's a total - get in your box little woman, me and my penis will do what ever the hell we want and and if that includes negating womens rights and reappropriating your sex, tough shit

Very well said.

DannyGlickWindowTapping · 11/06/2020 18:58

Great post OP. I think that even more worrying than the "typically male" aggressive responses being seen is that so many young women are agreeing. Well, not to the "suck my lady dick" comments specifically, but the general feeling of shut up and sit down. This is what they've grown up hearing and learning. It's their "normal". Be nice. You must share your space so that some people feel comfortable, even if it makes you uncomfortable. Having boundaries is cruel.

And we end up here - unable to describe ourselves or our lived experiences. Reduced to a collection of purely biological functions. I think the worst that was directed at me, was "bleeders, breeders or feeders". Apparently it was cute and funny, and I wasn't allowed to take offense.

ChattyLion · 11/06/2020 19:19

So many great posts on here.Flowers

Mysterian · 11/06/2020 19:50

@niveaessential

Can I ask a possibly rude question?

Why do transgender people call themselves trans? why not just call yourself a woman or a man?

honestly not trying to cause sh*t but I've always wondered about it

They don't call themselves trans. Unless it's actually relevant to the point they're making. They are very happy just to call themselves a woman or a man.
almondfinger · 11/06/2020 19:54

I was clear that I support anyone who wants to live as any (or no) gender. I would always have their back if they were threatened or being discriminated against. However I don’t think that should be at the expense of women’s safety and rights. These feminists that are so loud in their opinions don’t seem to realise they are pushing the opinion of an extremely small minority of men.

This is so true,.

Calabasa · 11/06/2020 19:59

you do you.

I dont see a transwomans experience of womanhood as any kind of erasure of my own, we each have our own journeys.

I will keep thinking my friends are the gender they choose to identify as, and respect their wishes in how I refer to them, and keep enjoying their company, and friendship and vibrant existence with love and respect.

You can carry on doing whatever it is you're doing in telling them they're wrong.

sunshinesupermum · 11/06/2020 20:01

Well said OP!

frugalkitty · 11/06/2020 20:05

Well said OP!

IStandWithWomen · 11/06/2020 20:09

You can carry on doing whatever it is you're doing in telling them they're wrong.

You are spectacularly missing the point of my op. I'm not telling trans people they are wrong for being trans, I'm angry that women are being called transphobic for saying that their biological functions are their own. This entire thread isn't about gender, it's about sex and anatomy and how they affect women every day, and how bloody unfair it is for others to deny our bodies, how they work or our own opinions as they're not deemed 'inclusive' for those who can't ever biologically be the same.

OP posts:
44PumpLane · 11/06/2020 20:14

OP, what a wonderfully eloquent post. Amazingly put xxx

kazzer2867 · 11/06/2020 20:29

100% spot on. Well said OP.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 11/06/2020 23:35

@IStandWithWomen

You can carry on doing whatever it is you're doing in telling them they're wrong.

You are spectacularly missing the point of my op. I'm not telling trans people they are wrong for being trans, I'm angry that women are being called transphobic for saying that their biological functions are their own. This entire thread isn't about gender, it's about sex and anatomy and how they affect women every day, and how bloody unfair it is for others to deny our bodies, how they work or our own opinions as they're not deemed 'inclusive' for those who can't ever biologically be the same.

Absolutely!
Lancrelady80 · 11/06/2020 23:56

OP - yes, yes, yes!!!

Wolfgirrl · 12/06/2020 00:28

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

YES OP!!!

What did I see when Daniel Radcliffe and Eddie Redmayne piped up from their privileged little podiums?

I saw two men putting the boot into a woman (who is the reason why one of them is even relevant in the news) and dismissing her AUTHENTIC concerns about her OWN WOMANHOOD, in order to bask in the glory of public bandwagons in an act of sheer misogynism.

Pathetic, the pair of them.

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