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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A response to JK Rowling

966 replies

Hjft · 11/06/2020 09:54

J.K. Rowling, like so many others, has recently been accused of transphobia and targeted for expressing some of her opinions on sex and gender. This is a very nuanced issue which many people struggle with, including members of the trans community. Assuming bigotry and shutting down debate is not the way to address these issues. Instead we should engage in reasoned debate in order to better understand the subtitles and find a way to live together with mutual respect.

On 10 June 2020 JK Rowling wrote about her reasons for speaking out on sex and gender Issues ( www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ ) . It is a welcome calm voice in what she calls a toxic environment and I commend her bravery for standing up to the bullies. The essay explains eloquently what she believes and why she holds the opinions she does. She opens up about some very personal issues, and I hope all her detractors will read it before shouting her down.

An essay, however well written, carries a bias, and a reasonable author will recognise that bias and be willing to consider that they could be wrong. And so should the reader of an essay. By writing this essay, JK Rowling has exposed some very valid points which the other side of the debate wish to brush aside. However, she has also indicated a bias which I hope to address.

She conflates sex and gender, and she conflates the law and medicine. Firstly she worries that trans activism is ‘pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender’. This legal definition is for the protection of the civil rights of trans people and has no bearing on biology. Trans people still receive healthcare appropriate to their individual biological truths. Every trans person is acutely aware of their biological sex because it is incongruous with their gender. Remember when Harry Potter uses Polyjuice potion to take on the form of Goyle in ‘Chamber of secrets”. He does not stop being Harry. Now imagine if Harry had got stuck, and had to live his life with everyone believing he was Goyle. It would be intolerable for him and would likely lead to mental illness or worse. This is what it’s like for trans people, and why the law is in place to protect their right to be their authentic selves. Being Harry is ‘not a costume’.

This conflation is further illustrated when she expresses alarm that ‘A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law’. Again, this demonstrates a conflation of law and medicine. If a trans person can find relief from their gender dysphoria by permanently expressing themselves in an authentic manner then why should we expect them to accept medical intervention in order to get legal protection. Imagine you have a migraine. If sitting in a dark room with a glass of water provides you with sufficient relief, then you shouldn’t be expected to take strong pain killers or accept brain surgery. The ‘man’ she describes is not masquerading as a woman - she is living her authentic identity as a woman. The law protects her rights to do so. She is not a predator, and it should not be assumed that she is. Without these rights, her transgender status would be revealed every time she tries to hire a car, or open a bank account, and it is her safety that is in danger. A man masquerading as a woman is not able to legally get a Gender Recognition Certificate - because they are a man.

[redacted*] I hope JK Rowling’s essay will mark a turning point in the tone of these discussions, and people can start to properly address them.

  • [edited by MNHQ to remove inflammatory content - we're allowing the challenges to this section of the OP to remain]
OP posts:
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RufustheRowlingReindeer · 13/06/2020 22:43

Very interesting wines

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 22:44

So GRA reform officially dropped rather than just kicked into the long grass?

NewAccountForCorona · 13/06/2020 22:46

Reporting people for suggesting DARVO? Really?

Chocolate, your posts on this thread are at best naive, and at worst deliberately provocative. It would help if you would stop yelling at people and telling them what to think, and either spend a bit of time listening to others' concerns, or even better explaining your views.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 22:46

Where does this leave Scotland? Something's already been decided, which is worrying.

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 22:47

I know!!’ Is it a Mock up? Has this been really leaked?

Will this give us all a breather for a while?

Sunday times says

Single sex spaces to be protected
Self id out
‘Gay conversion’ banned

Bloody hell!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 22:49

Is Scotland actually able to proceed if Westminster says no?

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 22:49

I like the part that says’ polls say voters support trans rights but do not support male bodied transwomen accessing single spaces ‘

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 22:50

BTW in case it's not clear that I'm cheering, I am totally cheering! Well done Liz Truss and the Baroness if this is real, and well done JK Rowling for helping to push the conversation into the mainstream.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 22:51

Its devolved, so yes. Anyone who was born in Scotland can use the legislation to change their birth certificates, even if they live elsewhere.

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 22:52

Insiders report that over 100000 responses to the consultation with 70% support for self ID but the government realised it was skewed due to major push from trans lobbyists and did not reflect the public view.

Fucking hell!

MMN123 · 13/06/2020 22:54

Sounds to me @Chocolate50 as if you habe personal experience with your transman son going through the GRC process and you haven’t really taken on board anything new in this debate since then. Rowlings concerns and the concerns of posters on this thread are about the proposed changes. Not the historic situation you experienced with your child.

Any man can ‘dress as a woman’ and access female spaces unchallenged. Transwomen might turn up in nice frocks but they don’t need to. I wore jeans and a black t-shirt and workmen boots today. So if a man walks into women’s spaces dressed ‘as a woman’ what does that mean? I am a woman. If they dress like me, then they don’t even need the bother of getting a nice frock. So how do I know if that’s a trans woman in jeans, tee shirt and workmen boots or if it’s a man in jeans tee shirt and workmen boots? And if any man can wake up and decide “today I’m female” and there is no further process, then any man can access any women’s space without even changing their jeans, tee shirt and workmen boots. And if I object or ask if they are trans, I can be removed from the premises for being transphobic even if they are not trans.

Other posters are just asking if you were aware of that.

Personally I don’t think it matters if you are aware of it or not - you seem to be stuck with issues around your daughters transition to being recognised as male and I guess you are trying to be a good mum by arguing for trans rights on forums. But might be best to update yourself before being so vocal. Otherwise you’re just making yourself look a bit silly.

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 22:55

They say it was to be released in general election (not sure why not, maybe to stop distractions from Brexit) and then again earlier this year but coronavirus cancelled announcement.

Sorry, it is hard to read and obviously no and paste.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 22:56

If only the Scottish govt had paid a bit of attention. We didn't even know the consultation was happening till it was well over. I'm sure the numbers who participated would reflect that. Why can't third spaces, safety and dignity for all, be good enough? Why do males hate females so fucking much?

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 22:58

Sorry Big Gee, they are talking about the UK consultation not Scottish.

MMN123 · 13/06/2020 22:58

That’s brilliant news!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 22:59

I was able to make it big and this actually goes further than just dropping the plans for GRA reform and into actively protecting women's spaces. They'll have a fight on their hands getting this through the Commons but there's plenty of time to do more public awareness raising before that. I wonder if Rowling knew this was coming and that's why she choose to take a public stand at this particular moment.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 23:00

@Winesalot

Sorry Big Gee, they are talking about the UK consultation not Scottish.
Yeah, we're fucked. I can see me carrying in the future.
Winesalot · 13/06/2020 23:09

But Big Gee, if this does happen in Westminster surely it sends a strong message to Nicola that they need to stop? Am I just naive?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 23:10

That would be my hope, but the SNP seem perfectly capable of proceeding with a bad plan just to spite the English.

(Before anyone comes for me, I'm Scottish and thus perfectly entitled to have an opinion on the SNP.)

TorkTorkBam · 13/06/2020 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Chocolate50 · 13/06/2020 23:16

@MMN123
Thank you for your post directed to me. Yes of course son has informed decisions but not wholly.
I've been looking at recent (June 5th) Scottish news. They are clear that 3 criterion for new rules are adhered to regarding new gender proposal. This doesn't describe just deciding to be opposite sex. Talks about actively transitioning or being in process (under specialist) definitely not just declaring that you decide to be a different sex & skipping off to single sex toilet. In that respect, nothing has changed since son transitioned.

In other news Nicolodeon just declared that SpongeBob is gay.
Still, must get on. Can't stay in this Jeremy Kyle Cesspit any longer.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 23:16

Scottish here too prodigal and as full of cynicism as you. The SNP are determined to be different, and in some cases I support that (diff lockdown dates made sense, for example). This though, this was a massive betrayal.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/06/2020 23:16

Well they'll be in for a disappointment then, since I took one look at the screenshot and went "nope".

Winesalot · 13/06/2020 23:17

Thanks for the warning torktorkbam.

BigGee · 13/06/2020 23:20

tork you took one for the team. I salute you, and thank you. Need any zoflora for your eyes?

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