AIBU to not want to get married?

[user57310]

We don't want to get married (just a piece of paper etc etc). But we would like something more than "tenants in common" on the paperwork.

We share step children.

We have been together for a period of time.

We are quite spiritual / alternative.

AWBU not to want to get "married" per se, but to seek alternative (civil partnership or more spiritual, for example: hand fasting) methods of declaring our life and love together?

What are the alternatives? Please share your experiences - even if it's a ceremony abroad / at home / between friends, which holds no weight in the U.K. but means something very special to you.

I think you are being naive.
I've seen 2 situations in my life when a parent's death has caused huge will issues.

We sign things for each other children at school with no issues and we aren't married. We just had to fill in a form at school.statinh we were stepparents.

Marriage isn't all that. If you divorce, you won't necessarily get 50% of his assets. Also, if he get in to great debt, then that would also be your debt. Main reason I refuse to marry my partner and glad I dont have to carry the burden of 30k on my back.

@RedTitsMcGinty we have a similar scenario for school to @Purpleandteal.

And yes, I agree - I have no ambition to relive the shitshow of my previous marriage and atrocious divorce.

Thank you for calling me naive @Mrskeats - to be perfectly frank I think I'm gaining far more knowledge / information and doing far more research than ever before in order to look out for (protect) myself and my children.

@Purpleandteal — the school might be okay with that but it’s not legally valid. If something happened to your kids and you weren’t around, your partner wouldn’t be able to make any decisions about medical care, for example. Not without being married and applying to the courts for parental responsibility.

But most people don't do it, do they? Especially when parents aren't absent. I think full parental responsibility only belongs to the parents when both are present and fully involved.

In the case of the OP though it looks like it might make sense.

Also, if he get in to great debt, then that would also be your debt.

If in the UK, this is wrong. It is possible for a debt of one party to affect a jointly owned asset, which would also be true if you weren't married. It's also possible for debts to be taken into consideration when dividing up assets on divorce. But it absolutely doesn't become the spouse's debt if married.

Traditional marriage isn't for everyone, for some people, partly because of what it has meant historically - people have their own reasons.

As for legalities, isn't that what a will is for? Or POA should the need ever arise?

Really, no inheritance, or making decisions about your partners health if needed, or any of the other things listed here?
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

[quote user57310]@notheragain4 - yes (one of us owns a property), no (one of us works, the other provides childcare including home ed). It's a complicated set up hence why a legal, traditional 'marriage', paperwork, and all the connotations of splitting assets straight down the middle / "all that I have I give to you" stuff wouldn't work. Don't think we are cynical - we are simply learning from our past and providing / protecting our future. Does that help? [/quote]
So one stays at home, and does not have the same earning power of the other?

As for legalities, isn't that what a will is for? Or POA should the need ever arise?

Depends entirely on what you mean by legalities. Marriage and CP both change a couple's position legally in ways that can't be replicated outside those institutions. So for example there's no will that could possibly allow an unmarried couple to be treated in the same way as a married couple for IHT purposes. But of course some people actively won't want the legal changes that only marriage or CP can bring, so they'd be better off not doing it. A will can also be revoked by the person who wrote it without the other partner knowing, whereas if you're being divorced you'll know about it. But again, a person might see this as a good or bad thing.

Everyone ought to have POA though, whether they're married or not.

So you own a home, have children but don’t work outside the home.

Your fella works, doesn’t own or have a financial interest in the house where he lives with you and provides the money that runs that home and feeds you and your children?

You don’t want to marry him as you don’t want him to have any claim on your house plus you are “spiritual and alternative”.
What exactly is this man getting out of this relationship? He has no financial security, he pays into a home he will never have any legal right to and you could die and your kids could kick him out of his own home leaving him With nothing.

If this was in reverse and you were living and paying into his house you would be being told to protect your future, buy your own house and rent it out, make sure you have a leaving fund and not to leave yourself financially vulnerable. So he should do the same.

Some things that have cropped up;

Next of Kin: it actually has no legal status in the UK and a hospital etc would be 100% happy to liaise with a partner living in the same household Unless told not to. There could be issues if there was a disagreement with parents, but you can take care of that with a Power if Attorney, for example.

Tenants in Common: in the contract of marriage or CP, all money and property becomes an asset of the marriage. A previous Tenants in Common Deed, or a so-called pre-nup might hold some influence if a break up went to court and if both parties had plenty without splitting 50/50. But if, for example, you want to protect a majority share or ownership if your property don’t get married or enter into CP. Even if you are wearing jeans and eating tapas. A contract is a contract and marriage and a CP bind you together legally as one business where all partners own the business.

Get wills. Think about whether you want to leave your own assets direct to your own children or divided equally amongst all, or to your partner. Direct to kids with a lifetime interest to live in the house might be best. Step children tend to fare very very badly if their parent dies, step parent inherits everything, re-marries Someone younger who then inherits from the step parent. I have seen it many times!

When making wills discuss inheritance tax- it may or may not be an issue for you.

Friends of mine had a big 10 year anniversary party.

You could all double barrell your names, or adopt a combination of your names, but do sensitively consult your children if you want to change their names - and you cannot change their names without the consent of their other parent. So maybe just you and your DP both hyphenate your surnames together?

If one of you is working and one not the working one can take over some tax allowance from the non earner if you are married, but only if the earner is not a higher rate tax payer. So this may not be relevant anyway.

Marriage protects the lower earner whoever it might be

Not if the lower earner owns the property or has savings, a pension etc, all of which could be split in a divorce.

Well the least wealthy wether by income or existing wealth.

@Proudboomer Your fella works, doesn’t own or have a financial interest in the house where he lives with you and provides the money that runs that home and feeds you and your children?

My partner doesn't own or have a financial interest in the house, nor do they provide all the money that runs the house and feeds us all. We do that jointly.

Thank you @YinMnBlue that is all very helpful. Direct to kids with a lifetime interest to live in the house might be best. is also of interest and relevance, thank you.

@Proudboomer in fact as it happens, the entire monthly household budget is divided into the number of people in the house, and paid for by the relevant parent.

For example: say that there were 5 of us (there are not) the budget is divided by 5 and I pay 3/5ths, they pay 2/5ths. Equally if one month the majority of the time there were only 4 of us (me, my DC, partner) my partner would pay 1/4.

@Purpleandteal & @RedTitsMcGinty - school wouldn't actually know what DC other blood parent looked like...

How would inheritance tax work if you died and he lived in the property until his death?

What if he wanted to marry after your death or move to a smaller property?

How will the children feel about him living in ‘their’ house rent free for possibly years or even rent free with a new woman/family?

What about Maintenance for the property if he decided to let it ruin?

What if he wanted to sell it and buy a joint property with a new partner?

These are the things you need to discuss.

Plus the next of kin would belong to your family and not him and he wouldn’t be able to give information for burial or medical care - you need advice on that aspect.

What if he couldn’t cope with your children and sent them to be fostered? Or asked GP or their father to raise them and he stays in the house?

These are just off the top of my head!

I would say, get married. If you don't, you are not protecting your legal rights and those of your children. Just sign the papers. Don't just be "alternative" and "new agey." Do research and find out what benefits and drawbacks accrue to those who are marred and those who aren't. If you would have an enhanced pension, etc., if you get married, then do it. Then, have whatever kind of ceremony you want.

Even if you’re married or in a CP you still need to make a will!
If assets are above a certain level they will not automatically all go to your spouse/partner.

It’s even more essential to make one if you’re not married or in a CP.

@Durgasarrow - and what if, for example, I was filthy rich and my partner was not? What if, say, I never have to work again, as a result of previous financial gains?

I find it intriguing that so many say "get married to protect yourself". I feel quite the opposite. I'm very fortunate that my partner feels the same. They want nothing (in terms of finances or assets, property, ownership) from me or my children, particularly my children. What they offer is emotional stability and a lifetime of health and happiness. They will be able to build up their own pot simultaneously which will be their security.

What we are looking for is a sign of our commitment which isn't marriage (or since having started this thread, which isn't civil partnership). And some further updates to our Wills.

Thanks @GreenTulips - all valid points which are very helpful for our discussion.

My advice is go to a solicitor. personally I don't benefit from marriage at all, in fact divorce could mean losing half of my assets. (It's all very convoluted and not worth side tracking your thread). But ultimately I want to marry him and want to be his wife. So I'm doing it for romantic reasons only. You can protect your partner/children with wills.