So now Netflix has removed The Mighty Boosh and League of Gentlemen

[Doyoumind]

Should they be cancelled or is it going too far? They weren't like Little Britain, imho. Perhaps they were offensive. How far does it go though? Will there be anything left to watch pre 2020?

Youd think that efforts would be better spent actually addressing racism and prejudice particularly within institutions, rather than erasing tv shows from almost 50yrs ago

That would require money and effort; this doesn't. It's lazy PR.

But what about some TV programme I haven't watched for 5 years waaaahhhhhhh...

melia but it's something they could do NOW and it's a start.

But I believe by saying it's ok to whiteface but not black face because of oppression of BAME people you are still creating and actually advocating a divide.

It should not be ok one way if it isnt another.

We should be educating people that EVERYONE must behave the same way. Have EQUAL opportunity, be tested EQUALLY. Have the same standards.

We should be saying that skin colour is irrelevant. We are all humans who are held to the same standards and treated with the same standards.

you know the woman in gone with the wind,she wasnt allowed to sit with her white actors at the oscars because of segrigation!

I read that Netflix are considering removing The Help which surprised me as the whole premise of the film was about the injustice of the inequality. But people say that the story promotes “white saviour” angle which I guess they have a point. But it’s a popular film which might get people thinking/talking about how unfair peopLe of colour were/are treated.

But I believe by saying it's ok to whiteface but not black face because of oppression of BAME people you are still creating and actually advocating a divide.

Except you’re not, because whitefacing isn’t nearly as prevalent as blackfacing (aside from not carrying the same weight culturally) - White Chicks has been brought up time and time and time again because it’s one of about five examples. Blackface is a completely different thing, and only someone desperate to believe otherwise would compare the two.

Agree that it has to work both ways though, re 'whiteface', same with 'cultural appropriation' which should work both ways, but doesn't.

@ginghamstarfish

Agree that it has to work both ways though, re 'whiteface', same with 'cultural appropriation' which should work both ways, but doesn't.

Why doesn’t it, do you think?

As pp have said Schindler's List and Gone with the wind are not comparable. One is a powerfully moving depiction of Nazi atrocities that does not try and make us think Jews were content in concentration camps, the other is a cosy romanticisation of slavery and the American South in the Civil War period.

I think Netflix are right in wanting to provide more context GWTW before they have it available precisely because people do learn their history from films - we should be explaining that it is a romanticised view of slavery and the Civil War produced many decades later because not everyone has carried out an depth study of that period of American history at school...

Most of these programmes will it be lost forever - copies exist. And even if they were, a bit of me wants to say so what? There are plenty of TV programmes and films that we only have descriptions (or only single copies survive in places like the BFI) because the BBC used to destroy/reuse(?) film. Is it really the end of the world if we can't access every programme we watched 10 years ago on demand? We could try watching some new TV instead of repeats (ok maybe that is a bit tricky with current filming restrictions but people are trying!)

Why do you assume I'm desperate to believe otherwise?

I don't agree removing privilege from one group creates equality. I believe providing privilege to all groups creates that.

And I believe having the same standards of acceptance and expectation across the board helps sets a basic human rights.

I want to raise opportunities for everyone. Equally across the board. Whoever you are and whatever your background.

I'm shocked that in the 21st century when a woman gets a top job, or someone from a BAME community or even a female from a BAME community (which gets the biggest fanfare) its such a huge deal. It shouldn't be. It should be no more a big deal the crime commissioner for met is a woman than if they were a man. Or they are from a BAME community or if they are white.

I believe that by now we should have equalled things up enough that it's expected and accepted everyone is able to achieve such positions. And it isn't unusual.

Well I’m keeping North and South sorry but I’ve had them for years.

I'd like to know if black people have actually complained, or whether this is just a woke gesture. Does anyone really believe that the guys behind any of these programs are raging racists? Honestly? You might object to some of the use of blackface, that might be fair enough, but it's very reductive to consider all blackface the same. Minstrels were clearly racist and sending up black people according to negative stereotypes. With these more recent comedies, it was more a case of creating bizarre characters. Were we really supposed to think Papa Lazarou was a black man? I always saw him as something more supernatural, it was clearly face paint and not naturalistic, and he was a member of the circus. I'm happy to hear other opinions, but I don't see any of these characters as presenting negative racial stereotypes, they're out of this world characters. Taking Gone With the Wind off, an 80 year old film about the civil war, is just ridiculous. Yes, the black characters are stereotypical, so are the white characters. Scarlet is a manipulative, spoilt, man-eater, should women complain because she shows women in a negative light?

In the interests of accuracy, Robert Downey Jr was actually nominated for Best Supporting Actor for playing a megalomaniac white actor who is sufficiently disconnected from reality that he thinks it’s OK to dye his skin to play a black character. Haven’t seen the film so not sure how it feels to watch it nowadays.

I am also bemused as to why it is a terrible thing to say 'this thing that I thought was ok, actually now I realise it wasn't and this is why'?

I see it as going hand in hand with the pillorying of politicians as hypocrites if they change their mind on a topic or policy. It completely undermines debate and education if we are not able to develop our ideas in response to new information or new discussions.

They can't just erase the past like this and make it go away. This is what China does and people over there still remember, they just can't talk about what they know.

Surely Noel Fielding (and definitely his girlfriend/wife) are among the most woke people on the planet. Papa Lazarou is just another zany creation like the Crack Fox or the moon being a bit simple.

I hope all the crack addicts and simpletons are writing strongly worded emails (tweets?) to Netflix as we speak.

(Oh to be a crack addict in 2020, infinitely preferable to any of the other nonsense going on right now).

It's odd that so many people are getting behind the idea that people need to challenge microaggressions when they witness them, stand up against the insidious nature of subtley racist comments/digs/"jokes" among friends and colleagues, etc. but when that extends to a company saying yes, maybe we shouldn't keep broadcasting shows that do all those things and normalise them, people are up in arms.

And they're not banned. No, the next step is not "burning books" ffs. Nobody is destroying all records of these shows or films. It's just private companies exercising their right to not broadcast them any longer.

They can't just erase the past like this and make it go away

Netflix removing a show from their streaming service = trying to erase the past? Talk about overdramatic.

I don't agree removing privilege from one group creates equality. I believe providing privilege to all groups creates that.

And I believe having the same standards of acceptance and expectation across the board helps sets a basic human rights.

But you’re talking as if we’re starting from an equal point. We’re not. We can’t suddenly start treating everyone exactly the same because then marginalised groups would be at an ever bigger disadvantage - we have massively more shows on Netflix written by white people than black people, for example. What’s the equality there? How do you make that equal and still treat everyone exactly the same?

hyper why do you think black make up is used to look scary or weird or not natural? Or belongs in a circus? Where do we think that came from? Black faces as scary and bad? From a good place?

Even "woke" people get it wrong sometimes.

The other day I was looking for an old Blue Peter episode from the 1980s. Nobody with a recording has put in on YouTube. The BFI just has a description not a copy. The past has not been erased. I still know Blue Peter existed as a programme, I know what it did, I know who the presenters were, I have a summary of what that episode covers.

This is no different. We are not saying these programmes were never made, people aren't being made to burn their copies. We are saying, this programme was made, this was what is about, these were the characters, this is why we no longer hink they are appropriate.

And in the case of GWTW it will be back on Netflix once they have produced contextual information. It is not erased.

Totally true we can't erase the past.

We can learn, reflect, improve.

Even "woke" people get it wrong sometimes.

I would phrase it as "woke" people can do something at a particular time then reflect, talk to different people, learn and realise that they wouldn't do the same thing again now. And understand why people might find their past actions offensive. Because it is ok to learn, improve and change...