White Privilege Vs Majority Privilege

[Bumpitybumper]

I want to start this thread by stating that white privilege undeniably exists and I'm not intending to deny it's existence or the advantage it bestows on white people.

I have noticed recently a number of BLM posts on social media centred around everyday white privilege. They include things like:

• a child going to a white friend's house, having an accident and the parents only being unable to offer a plaster of the correct skin tone
• a black child not having the experience of having a black teacher or other black classmates

In my region of the UK less than 1% of the population in black and the demographics of my child's school represents this. I imagine the majority of parents buy plasters that match their children's skin tone and the teachers, parents and children are overwhelmingly white.

When these kinds of examples are used to explain white privilege I wonder how protesters think these kinds of scenarios should be tackled? Surely we should be looking to (for example) make sure that the teaching staff of a school are representative of their local population rather than suggest that all schools should have at least one teacher of each minority group? AIBU therefore to suggest that tackling white privilege is sometimes (not always) a different issue than tacking majority privilege?

I've heard it all now plasters ffs people will look for anything to be offended

Surely if you are employing teachers you should employ the best of the applicants. There should be no bias towards or against anyone.

@EmbarrassedUser

Personally I think black and ethnic minorities in general hold a lot more power than they realise. It seems to me that you can only be racist if you’re white and the word n*er is fine black on black but when it’s white on black you could easily get lynched

Are you being serious? Your argument is that black people hold more power than they think because they can say the n word? Are you on glue? What would saying the n word add to your already pitiful sounding life?

Secondly, do black people have a history of lynching white people? Not entirely sure what you are referring to, never in my entire existence have a seen or hear of a white person ‘easily getting lynched’. You need your head checked.

Growing up in London, where it's obviously ethnically diverse and so no majority really, makes it hard for me to think it could be majority privilege rather than white. A very small example would be that as a white person, you're able to purchase your hair products in your local supermarket as part of your shopping, but as a mixed race person, I can't. Even in areas where black people are the majority btw.

ha-ha, no Raaaa! No one is offended by plasters!

We're talking about racism and the privilege of not having to deal with it. The plasters was being used as an example, and a bit of a bad one IMO. :-)

@1stbabs
Growing up in London, where it's obviously ethnically diverse and so no majority really, makes it hard for me to think it could be majority privilege rather than white. A very small example would be that as a white person, you're able to purchase your hair products in your local supermarket as part of your shopping, but as a mixed race person, I can't. Even in areas where black people are the majority btw
The BLM movement does seem very Londoncentric which completely makes sense when you consider the demographics of the city. Maybe part of the confusion and breakdown in understanding comes from people trying to apply the same arguments and logic across the country as a whole.

Perhaps unsurprisingly in a community where less than 1% of people are black, arguments about shops stocking products specifically for black people resonate differently than for a community where black people are in the majority and shops still predominantly stock products designed for white people. I guess though there will be a certain amount of decisions that are made at a national level where chain stores simply do not attempt to cater for local differences.

Do plasters actually match anyone's skin tone?

I understand the concept of white privilege. I'm just not sure how you can differentiate between white privilege, wealth privilege, class privilege.

I wouldn't tell BLM how to run their campaigns, but I'm guessing they're trying to find everyday things people might notice rather than just doing statistics of violence done by the those acting on behalf of the state which is more often done out of sight. It's easier for people to notice that it's a bit off that that weird shade of beige is called 'nude' on plasters and other products than listing off heart-breaking but potentially possibly numbing stories of people killed. The hope is usually that noticing the little things will make it easier to discuss the harder issues (not that I've seen much evidence of it, sadly).

I think "majority privilege" is normally in discussions of mild criticism of overreaching lists like Peggy McIntosh's "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" which includes things like "I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time." which can be argued to be a majority thing (and maybe a bit telling of the areas the people who write those kinds of lists frequent), but I wouldn't get tangled up deeply in it. There are plenty of criticisms of privilege, both as a term (rights being framed as privileges has issues) and in the way the social theory is used, but none of those mean any group working on the issues needs to frame everything they do in line with any particular idea of best practice. We simply don't know what the best thing for any one in that position. I don't think the idea is to hyperfocus on any of those things specifically but to see it as part of a wider issue.

As for school representation, there are a wider variety of ways to show representation than just who is hired which is an incredibly limited way to do so - we can't make people go into teaching or work at a particular place, and a similar argument - lack of male teachers - has been used for why boys do worse in schools than girls. Bringing more community connections to schools I think would be great, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Expanding the choices of literature and history has some strong evidence behind it, but that's been pretty fucked over with recent governments and a lack of quality resources for kids currently available that actually involves the UK rather than a former colony is an issue. We can't get caught up on one blip that we don't see the other options and issues going on.

"Plasters" are usually 1 example in a tick list of 20 or more things you don't have to worry about daily w/ White Privilege.

The other issue of "representation" is relevant b/c it's important to see BAME professionals (teachers, doctors, lawyers) & people in positions of power ( Parliament, FTSE 100, Academia etc) so as to provide role models for BAME youth & challenge stereotypes for white people etc.

Some of this is ridiculous

If a manufacturer can make money from something they will produce it. They make blue plasters ffs for use in restaurant kitchens because the plasters have to be visible. Companies are there to make a profit and clearly when over 80 percent of the population is white that will be the most profitable plaster to make. If they are going to make other colours how many shades do you want? They are companies with shareholders not charities

My box of plasters are pink, yellow and green with unicorns on them. Is this an issue? I've never exactly been bothered by having to make a plaster invisible, especially on a child.

@bumpitybumper yes I agree that not all of these arguments can be exported for the whole country. If I moved to a predominantly white area, I don't think I'd have the concerns you mention in your OP, re teachers in schools etc. However I do think the point stands here and in other ethnically diverse areas in the UK.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
I understand the concept of white privilege. I'm just not sure how you can differentiate between white privilege, wealth privilege, class privilege
I expressed similar thoughts on a different thread and got accused of "whataboutery". I get where they were coming from in terms of black people quite rightly want some focus on their specific struggles right now, but any attempt to fix the problems will have to involve some wider discussions otherwise the solutions are going to be very piecemeal and risk alienating or detrimenting other disadvantaged groups.

@1stbabs
Growing up in London, where it's obviously ethnically diverse and so no majority really, makes it hard for me to think it could be majority privilege rather than white. A very small example would be that as a white person, you're able to purchase your hair products in your local supermarket as part of your shopping, but as a mixed race person, I can't. Even in areas where black people are the majority btw

Then the demand is not enough to justify it. In my local supermarket they have a polish food section, and American food section and an Indian food section. Whole aisles devoted to food imported from these counties, written in the local language and bought by these communities because there is a demand for it. If you can't buy something in a supermarket it's because the demand isn't there. They are businesses - if they can make money from something they will do it. This isn't about white privilege it's about demand

My mum used to have to buy skin toned tights. These never matched her black skin

Can you not see how ridiculous these arguments are? When I was young the standard colour of tights was American Tan. I do not know anyone of any race who has legs that colour! My mother certainly didn't.

Everything is catered to a majority or an average. Cars are designed for an average man so as a 5ft 2 inch woman my visibility is impaired by pillars or I have to sit on the steering wheel to reach the pedals. Plasters are mass produced a "flesh" colour than doesn't match anybody's skin. Businesses are out to maximise profit so won't try to cater to every possible permutation.

A friend was disabled in an accident and now uses a wheelchair. He discovered, as had all the people before him using a wheelchair, that doors were wrong and everywhere had steps, and sinks were too high etc. He trained as a designer and is now working to put these things right. That is the way to effect change.

Like the argument about hair PPE (which tbh, I have never heard of). How would anyone know about this, if the people it affects don't tell them?

@lucyintheskywithcz I can't see how there would not be the demand for black hair products in areas over 50% black, or Asian products in areas over 50% Asian? I appreciate as the OP said that decisions may not be made locally, but I would say that if a white person lives in an area where they are the minority, but can still get everything they need in their local supermarket, that's privilege.

As a Chinese person, I made one comment on skin coloured plasters (which are not available for people with my skin tone but actually are available for people with other non-white skin tones) and had my post deleted, which I think is incredible racist of Mumsnet.

I expect this post will be erased soon too.

Really, really, upset. Clearly East Asians aren't allowed to have an opinion.

Like the argument about hair PPE (which tbh, I have never heard of). How would anyone know about this, if the people it affects don't tell them?

They would know if some of the people it affects were involved in the design process, but it shows people just thinking everyone is similar to them, not questioning things.

Why does the n-word always come up on the internet? I don't know any black people who use the n-word to each other, but if I did, why would it be a big deal that cancelled out all racism because it was inappropriate for me to say it?

It's like wandering about a pub listening out for complete strangers with their own shared history bantering with eachother, and then calling these complete strangers the insults they use to each other. Would you do that?

Would you go up to two women at a bar, call one something insulting and then say "but your friend just called you that?"

If you wouldn't, you get exactly why white people using the n-word is different to some black people using it. You should stop being disingenuous.

Just want to point out that the hair example I used was a small one, which although irritates me is not that important in the grand scale of things. What I am more concerned about as an ethnic minority, is the lack of BAME representation in positions of power. CEOs, senior management, senior leadership in schools etc.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
I understand the concept of white privilege. I'm just not sure how you can differentiate between white privilege, wealth privilege, class privilege.

Well if you have two equally wealthy upper class people, and they're out for a run in their gym clothes, which one is more likely to be on the receiving end of any racist comments.
Or which is more likely to be stopped by the police?

If you have two equally poor people struggling as single parents, which one is more likely to be judged.

Should have said one black person and one white person in those examples.

It's so complex. I think your point about majority privilege is valid.

I said the other day it surprises me that in the 21st century that there needs to be such fanfare when a woman gets a top job, or a BAME person or the biggest a BAME female.
Surely a job is a job and if equality truly existed then this wouldn't be a surprise. It would just be "the head of X is this person"

But then it also surprises me when it's questioned why BAME people aren't equally represented in employment in all workplaces. Well they aren't 50% of the population!

There was a very interesting debate this morning on GMB about Churchill and Mandela. It did show clearly that every single person who had been a leader will have good and bad points.
I agreed with a guest who said it's not about what the statues and leaders represent and the history (we can't change) was. But what we can learn from that.

The irony being that plasters don't match anyone's skin tone, they are all a weird beige/brown colour. We buy the pure white, not because we are pure white, but because that's the colour sensitive non-latex plasters come in. No other colour available.

DD also can't get foundation to match her skin. She is very pale, and the very palest of the Loreal True Match is still brown on her skin.

I think companies generally go with the "mid point" tbh, which will match more closely with most people. That's just business, you can't cater for everyone, unless that's your usp, and you niche market.

@Baaaahhhhh

The irony being that plasters don't match anyone's skin tone, they are all a weird beige/brown colour. We buy the pure white, not because we are pure white, but because that's the colour sensitive non-latex plasters come in. No other colour available.

DD also can't get foundation to match her skin. She is very pale, and the very palest of the Loreal True Match is still brown on her skin.

I think companies generally go with the "mid point" tbh, which will match more closely with most people. That's just business, you can't cater for everyone, unless that's your usp, and you niche market.

There was a recent campaign to have plasters available to match all skin tones. They are now available in various shades of peach and brown, which is fine for the majority of people, but there's still nothing on the market (as far as I'm aware) to suit East Asian people.

Hopefully you get a chance to read this before Mumsnet delete this post... again.

Still incredibly angry. If anyone from HQ is reading, please message me, as I'd love to know why you think my skin colour is unacceptable to mention.