White Privilege Vs Majority Privilege

[Bumpitybumper]

I want to start this thread by stating that white privilege undeniably exists and I'm not intending to deny it's existence or the advantage it bestows on white people.

I have noticed recently a number of BLM posts on social media centred around everyday white privilege. They include things like:

• a child going to a white friend's house, having an accident and the parents only being unable to offer a plaster of the correct skin tone
• a black child not having the experience of having a black teacher or other black classmates

In my region of the UK less than 1% of the population in black and the demographics of my child's school represents this. I imagine the majority of parents buy plasters that match their children's skin tone and the teachers, parents and children are overwhelmingly white.

When these kinds of examples are used to explain white privilege I wonder how protesters think these kinds of scenarios should be tackled? Surely we should be looking to (for example) make sure that the teaching staff of a school are representative of their local population rather than suggest that all schools should have at least one teacher of each minority group? AIBU therefore to suggest that tackling white privilege is sometimes (not always) a different issue than tacking majority privilege?

I think it's unnecessary and possibly disingenuous to try to distinguish between white privilege and "majority" privilege in Western society.

To reduce it down to statistics and % representation will validate the idea that because ethnic people are in the minority then they shouldn't or needn't be catered for- be that for plasters, or represention in the media or acceptance/encouragement into professions.

The entertainment industry is still London-centric, where the population is more diverse, hence more representation of minorities than statistically across the country. Is this fair or right? I would say yes, absolutely. Because I hope for greater acceptance and that can only happen if different ethnicities are not "othered" so if we appear on TV then it "normalises" our existence in this culture.

And as already mentioned, white "superiority" has been so widely and successfully disseminated across the world through years of colonialism and power-grabbing, you can't avoid it even in countries where caucasians are not the majority population. Have you noticed how pale all the Kpop stars are? Especially the ones who've made any impact in the West? You will not find a dark skinned film star in HK or China either. The beauty "ideals" have long followed and conformed to white principles.

I agree with you to some extent OP. In areas with very small non-white population, it's not necessarily because of white privilege that there aren't black teachers etc. However I think in this situation what's important is to understand the effect that can have on children and think of other ways to help show them that they could be a teacher, their black skin down not make them lesser than classmates with white skin etc and show the white kids that that's the case too! For example, the curriculum in schools could include more poc, and more accurate portrayals for the British empire, civil education could include more on different forms of discrimination etc.

A PP mentioned tokenistic black people on TV. I think the problem isnt so much numbers but the role that black people have. It's pretty rare for a main character to be black, and for that just to be the case without their blackness being intrinsic to the role. When you have groups of friends etc in some areas I'm sure it would be normal to have 1 black person but in London or other big cities you might expect to have more black/poc. There's an episode of master of none where they talk about this a bit - why can't a sitcom have two Indian characters just because, without turning into an 'indian' show...

I also think that with a lot of this stuff, they might look small but it all adds up to send a particular message. Also of it were the case that black people weren't systematically discriminated against I'm sure plasters etc would be less of an issue, but it's because they are and from big ways to little ones that this matters.

@GrumpyHoonMain I don't know about African countires but in Indian culture, the privileging of fair skin and negativity about dark skin vastly pre-dates colonial times. They even mention in in the Great Hindu texts like Ramayan and Mahabarata. It is linked to the idea that North Indians are related to Aryans who were fair skinned. While the darker-skinned south indian Dravidian cultures are supposed to be older, the majority of the big Hindu events took place in North India and so 'fair' skin has come to seem more desirable.

I don't imagine that this was helped by colonialism, though, and the valorising of the West in India is definitely a thing too. It breaks my heart, even some of my friends have apologised to me for how dark their skin is!!!! I can't even believe that skin-whitening is so accepted there, celebs doing adverts etc.

Well said @EerieSilence I am white but I am aware of the colour of my skin being a very visual privilege. Nobody judges me on the street for "not belonging here", being a refugee, an immigrant with lower education and cultural background.

That's exactly my day to day existence when I step out the front door.

The example of plasters and tights feeds into the debate because it supports and idea of white being normal and not being white as something odd and difficult to cater for.

It is a privilege to go into the shops and buy something easily, without having to search or go to specialist shops or pay more.

I appreciate a lot of white people have a problem with the idea of white privilege because they will have their own problems - poverty, access to housing or health care, poor education provision, lack of jobs in their area. It can be really hard to be called privileged when you're dealing with that.

But we are still living in a society where it is a privilege not to have to deal with racism. Until that's solved, white privilege still exists.

The 'white default' idea is interesting but not sure it carries enough weight.

I thought part of the reason many Asian people (Japan & China) wanted lighter skin was because the beauty ideal was based on darker skins implied you were poor, worked outside/in fields whereas lighter skin equals having more money, being inside out of the sun? Similar to how it was in the West in the past before Coco Chanel popularised the tan?
& then there is the influence of the Geisha with their white face paint to highlight the hair/lips & expressions better in candlelight?

Plasters by skin tone? Plasters come in some hideous colour that. Matches no ones skin tone, clear that matches all, blue which only match a smurf or kids ones with designs on. If my child has a friend they are welcome in my house and can have any plaster out of the mickey mouse box they like.

Well white privilege is literally just that the injustices or difficulties you have faced have nothing to do with your skin colour.

Economic or ablitity privilege are separate.

It's not about having X number of different ethnicity of teachers, but about representation.

So other races should be represented in the videos they watch and in text books and videos they watch.

So plasters for darker skin tones generally aren't available in big drugstores - you have to order them specifically. Why?

It won't negatively effect white children to see other races but it will negatively affect Children of colour to never see themselves reflected back.

So why don't we provide that? Even in majority white areas. In fact, it may influence white children to be biased against POC if they never see them in childhood in books and educational videos.

@letmethinkaboutitfornow you think “African skin is beautiful”?

What’s that then? The homogenous skin found across an entire continent from Morocco to Angola?

Oh and regarding teachers it should be who ever is best qualified I don't care if every teacher in my sons school is of a different race to my child if they are the best person to educate him. Heck the teachers are going to need to be the best to make yup the months of school they are missing. The amount of teachers of a race should not reflect the children but hopefully be higher to show diversity. However I would like to point out being in Leicester there are schools here for ethnic children that do not allow white children to attend and are soley run by their own race. That is equally racism and encourages the split in the community. All schools should be mixed with teachers from all backgrounds if they are best for the job.

@GrumpyHoonMain 👏🏻
Facts about the impact on infection rates due to plaster colour, and yet people still want to bleat, “well I never choose my plasters by skin tone”. Because you don’t have to, the (vaguely, but close enough) plaster already matches your skin.

[quote Ellisandra]@letmethinkaboutitfornow you think “African skin is beautiful”?

What’s that then? The homogenous skin found across an entire continent from Morocco to Angola? [/quote]
Well, everyone I met wit from black / African background had. Disclaimer - I haven’t met with everyone in Africa though ☺️

The example of plasters and tights feeds into the debate because it supports and idea of white being normal and not being white as something odd and difficult to cater for.

But it is the "norm" to be white in the west. Statistically speaking. Basic mathematics.

The amount of teachers of a race should not reflect the children but hopefully be higher to show diversity
Diversity goes way beyond race and suggesting that schools should actively seek to make their school more racially diverse than the community it serves would be discriminatory in itself. If you want the best candidate for the job then ideally race shouldn't come into it. If you feel that certain races are underrepresented amongst teaching staff compared to the community they serve then I can understand how this could raise alarm and concern. Are applicants being afforded the same opportunity and is there structural bias in place to prevent minorities being offered positions?

If the composition of the staff does reflect the local community then I don't see the problem as surely you would expect local people to apply for local jobs and there is no reason why one race would be better than another at teaching and should automatically be overrepresented. In a region where less than 1 percent of the population is black, some quite extreme measures and structural bias would have to be introduced to the system to ensure that every school had a black teacher. Inevitably you would then have white applicants that represent other minority groups (religious, disabled etc) being overlooked in favour of the group that is being prioritised.

I do agree though that diversity should be emphasised in terms of what is taught in school and children from minorities that aren't represented in their school or their community at large should be afforded some extra consideration and support if required. I would hope this would be true for all minorities, especially those that have historically been overlooked or discriminated against.

@Colom

'The norm' in maths is something very different to the concept of what is normal in society. It's not about statistic.

Similar but not the same word at all.

@SomeOriginalUserName
The example of plasters and tights feeds into the debate because it supports and idea of white being normal and not being white as something odd and difficult to cater for
It's not about being white, but being in the majority. I am petite so clothes routinely don't stock clothes that fit me. Although my height doesn't make me inferior, it does mean that I am not the "norm" and it is not economically viable for clothes shops to stock every style and range in my size. If I want to have a decent selection of clothing I need to shop online. In terms of catering for the masses and achieving economies of scale, I am odd and difficult to cater for.

Of course, if other countries are not making tights or plasters that cater for the majority of their population then this does indicate prejudice. I'm not sure though that the accusations work the same when the overwhelming majority of the British population is white so the masses are catered for in the same way that people of average height, weight etc are also better catered for than those that diverge from the statistical norm.

@EmbarrassedUser we hold more power than we think because you can't say the N word? 😂. Is there a reason you want to be able to say the N word so badly?

@letmethinkaboutitfornow
Well, everyone I met wit from black / African background had. Disclaimer - I haven’t met with everyone in Africa though ☺️
Comments like this, intended as a compliment without any malice, do also feed into stereotyping of black people being one big group of talented athletes with beautiful singing voices and no wrinkles. It's othering.

The plasters do matter. Tights and bras in a beige-ish colour are labelled 'nude' or 'flesh coloured'.

@EmbarrassedUser

Thanks for that. All these years us black and ethnic minority folk have been complaining about racism, but are so dumb that we never knew that after enduring years of racism and asking for equality, that we hold a lot more power than we realised.

It's not my job to educate you on the meaning of racism and I wont waste my time trying to explain to you why black people can use the N word but a white person can't (should be self-explanatory really).

You know what I'm sick of. I'm sick of ignorant attitudes like yours.

In India and Africa centuries of white imperialism has meant the majority populations have been taught their skin colour is not beautiful. It’s ingrained into culture. Thus creating a market for skin whitening products

This issue also has another element to it - the perception that darker skin indicates a manual profession under the sun vs a paler complexion of someone in a prosperous professional job.

Darker skin is oftentimes perceived as an issue of weath/status within the community

Of course, if other countries are not making tights or plasters that cater for the majority of their population then this does indicate prejudice.

The patents owned to create non-white skin toned products are owned by companies owned by white people. Countries in Africa / Asia won’t get access to these products until the white people who own them decide to make them available. And they often don’t / won’t unless they can make money for them. This attitude (lets call it casual racism) is why Fenty Beauty has made a killing in India - it’s the first international brand to make all of it’s colours available there

Being able to buy things easily was an example that feeds into the debate. It isn't the whole debate. And I think it is a bad example to use to try and argue against the idea of white privilege.

The more important fact about white privilege is that there is privilege in not having to deal with racism.

It is unfair to be labelled with white privilege, as though it is something you are actively doing, as if you are guilty of something. It's not a nice feeling. But then the things people of other races experience, because of their race, are unfair too. Thinking about white privilege is a good opportunity to understand that.

I used the word normal, which has the meaning of conforming to a standard, typical, expected. The word "norm", which comes from maths and statistics, has a different, specific meaning.

I totally agree that the concept of statistical norms as a driver for stocking shops is a pain in the bum - I'm short too and shopping is a right pain :-)