White Privilege Vs Majority Privilege

[Bumpitybumper]

I want to start this thread by stating that white privilege undeniably exists and I'm not intending to deny it's existence or the advantage it bestows on white people.

I have noticed recently a number of BLM posts on social media centred around everyday white privilege. They include things like:

• a child going to a white friend's house, having an accident and the parents only being unable to offer a plaster of the correct skin tone
• a black child not having the experience of having a black teacher or other black classmates

In my region of the UK less than 1% of the population in black and the demographics of my child's school represents this. I imagine the majority of parents buy plasters that match their children's skin tone and the teachers, parents and children are overwhelmingly white.

When these kinds of examples are used to explain white privilege I wonder how protesters think these kinds of scenarios should be tackled? Surely we should be looking to (for example) make sure that the teaching staff of a school are representative of their local population rather than suggest that all schools should have at least one teacher of each minority group? AIBU therefore to suggest that tackling white privilege is sometimes (not always) a different issue than tacking majority privilege?

[Comefromaway]

I think they are dreadful examples of white privilege. There are far, far better examples. We used to live in an area that was largely asian, a good 90% of children and staff at the local primary school were asian but white privilege isn't about that. It's about the fact that black and asian people are statistically more likely to be treated less favourably purely due to the colour of their skin.

For what it's worth I always bought clear see through plasters for the first aid box at the kids activity I ran.

[Squirrel134]

@GrumpyHoonMain I am sorry, I just cannot agree with a lot of the stuff you have said.
1. But it does. Plasters (and bandages) not being skin toned is a reason why many African and Indian people take them off (they are more noticeable) and explain the higher rates of sepsis / infections from conditions that are curable in white countries.
What the heck are you talking about? When people are injured the last thing on their mind is their colour matching the infection control material. We are not stupid. If people (of any colour) refuse or take off plasters or bandages cos' not matching - they have other problems!
Fair enough, there maybe various skin-toned plasters, but we are talking First Aid and health, not fashion!
2. In India and Africa centuries of white imperialism has meant the majority populations have been taught their skin colour is not beautiful. It’s ingrained into culture. Thus creating a market for skin whitening products (again from companies owned by white people
Sold by people of colour to those of us, who feel the need to bow to peer pressure.
Well, as a dark-skinned BAME woman, if I had a daughter (have a son) I would be trying to build in some self-acceptance (ignore the crowd) and focus on the side-effects of these unneccessary products. Also, many 'white' women had been seduced to think being blonde was best - but is it really? I think, it is just men and silly women who use 'lightness of skin or hair' as a false measure of beauty and character. I know some people believe it is important to them, but it is a stupid aspect of 'shallow' culture.
But really, if you have to keep topping up to maintain the colour, you are duping yourself and nobody else. If someone is ready to waste their money in this way, it's their loss.
3. Hair guards and PPE I don't know enough about this. But what evidence have you got for absorbing infections through hair follicles. Besides, we generally moisture our hair and scalps more.
4. Smart hair
What can I say, I hear you on the neat hair look. We do what we have to, to make our way in our careers.
But on the positive, look at where we are now with black hair, plaiting, twists and even afros are now fashionable. Chemically relaxing hair is out of fashion. I personally am not too keen on wigs - but to each their own, and some look great.

@OP BLM is a key message across many areas of our daily lives, but don't let people sideline the complex issue to the little stuff like plasters. That is not what this it is about.
It is about giving black people the respect, fair treatment and justice we deserve treated like any other humans on our own merits, not adversely because of our colour or race; without the 'system inexplicably working against us'.
Those of us who are Black British, Black Americans & whatever other countries have a native, long-standing black population expect to be treated no different to any other people of those same countries. As for immigrants, they expect respect & fairness, and be treated like everyone else.
Peace and love

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

@Squirrel134

Such a great post.


Something that I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable about is white people pushing their way into this and actually doing more harm than good.

I watched a video on line today where a black man was trying to explain what he considered to be the biggest challenges facing black people to a white protester - but she was having none of it. She was doing the race equivalent of mansplaining.

Watching the white BLM protesters burning flags, throwing things at the police, looting in the States etc

Creating posts like this one - and diminishing the argument by using examples that trivialise racism.

I instinctively feel that it should be black people driving this, telling us what needs to be done, what changes need to be made and that's where we should then stand with them to make sure they happen. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Lilybet1980]

@NameChangeForThisOneToday you were an expat in Japan. That’s very different to the BAME populations who were born and raised in the UK and are actually British.

[YankeeinKingArthursCourt]

@Bumpitybumper
Another perspective with regards to "majority privilege" is Latin America. Most countries in Latin America have a white minority ( via European colonialism) who own most of the land, wealth, are in power etc whereas the majority are non-white (indigenous or slave ancestors) and have very little power, security, wealth, representation etc. These are perfect examples of the legacy of colonialism, slavery and white privilege / power.

[ABlackRussian]

Squirrel134

Spot on!

[Bumpitybumper]

@YankeeinKingArthursCourt
Yes, I accept that these countries contradict the "Majority Privilege" theory, however again I would argue that many people view it as a sign of systematic and structural prejudice and oppression when a minority has such advantages over the majority. This would imply that "Majority Privilege" does exist as there is an expectation that the distribution of power, wealth and resources should roughly reflect the demographics of the population.

[CayrolBaaaskin]

I used to live in a country with a majority non white population. There were a reasonable number of whites and other racial groups (other than the majority group) but we were definitely in a minority. I was aware I was in a minority yes, but I was. I was also aware of racism towards me and the other groups. This was tolerated locally and not seen as “serious” because the majority group were not white. Yet the consequences of the discrimination could be serious including job losses, denial of citizenship physical and sexual attacks and so on.

So to me, it’s this vulnerability that is important. The fact that someone could deny you permission to work because they don’t like your skin colour and you lose your job and home. The fact that there was a large group of permanent residents who had lived there for decades (in some cases for their whole lives), were denied citizenship because they were primarily white. And so on. I think there is an element of that in western democracies but it’s not as bad as the country I am talking about.

[Redyellowpink]

OP, you're a woman right? Imagine if you worked in an office where only 20% of the employees were women...however this meant that there wasn't a womens' toilet as there was no really need as most of the employees were men anyway. So you would have to either use the mens' toilet or go without.

Imagine you were a wheelchair user, the only one in the office...however there weren't ramps up to the canteen, which meant you'd either have to bring your own lunch or go without...when you asked for a ramp to be installed so you could eat with your colleagues the manager said there was no need as you were in the minority

The plaster argument is about inclusion and access as much as representation

[NameChangeForThisOneToday]

Lilybet - not really.i was considering staying and having children there, who would have been Japanese. My point is, if I had made that decision, I would not expect (and nor would it have happened - part of my decision not to stay), that the country changed to accommodate us (changed ads, changed TV celebrities, changed names of kids in school books, changes style of plaster!), and my Japanese child who would look different to her classmates

[titbumwillypoo]

Plasters: I also picked up on that when I read Noughts and Crosses so googled it and they do exist, but the UK is a free market economy so legistrating businesses to be more inclusive is problematic because you can tell them what they can't make and sell but how can you tell them what they HAVE to sell.
Representation: Positive discrimination and quotas can throw up as many issues as leaving things alone. PD is still a form of discimination. How can you have an equal society if you start favouring people based on ethnicity, gender or religion? What about the other oppressed groups who might not tick the chosen box?
Quotas: Firstly employers want the best person for the job, if you have to stick to quotas that won't always happen. Secondly, it could have an inverse effect. I was the only white male in a predominantly black school in Moss Side a few years ago, if you go with percentage quotas and made it so that 80% of staff there were white British how would that have represented the children there?
My only suggestion on employment issues is blind applications, remove all the boxes for race, sex and religion and let candidates be judged on their skills, qualifications and experience.

[YankeeinKingArthursCourt]

@Bumpitybumper
And if you look at trends globally, "majority privilege" is certainly the exception. A tiny fraction of the world's population controls the majority of the wealth, power, resources etc. This is also part of the legacy of white power / privilege, colonisation, slavery etc.

Out of curiosity, how would you define "white privilege"?

[1Morewineplease]

I’m struggling to see how plasters are involved in BAME issues... they don’t match most skin tones .
They’re mostly just beige. The translucent ones barely stick , nor do white ones.
We use silly plasters with themes or ordinary beige ones. We’re not racist.

[Pepperwort]

The plasters issue is remarkably trivial. FGS, there was a trend a little while ago for coloured ones with all kinds of characters on them, they didn't match skin-tone. I've also seen complaints about make-up. I don't wear it - I don't like the way it looks or feels, and consider any requirement to wear it sexist - and I have experienced occasional prejudice because of that. I will not sympathise with that as a rallying call.

There is real racism still. Who is the triviality coming from? Why do they think these trivial examples are worth anyone's time? The question of role-models is not going to be solved overnight. That's just a problem of population demographics, unless they have any bright ideas that don't disadvantage the majority.

[SomeOriginalUserName]

BLM is a key message across many areas of our daily lives, but don't let people sideline the complex issue to the little stuff like plasters. That is not what this it is about.
It is about giving black people the respect, fair treatment and justice we deserve treated like any other humans on our own merits, not adversely because of our colour or race; without the 'system inexplicably working against us'.

Those of us who are Black British, Black Americans & whatever other countries have a native, long-standing black population expect to be treated no different to any other people of those same countries. As for immigrants, they expect respect & fairness, and be treated like everyone else.

amplifying this @Squirrel134

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

I always get clear plasters which I think are suitable for all skin tones.

[Bumpitybumper]

@YankeeinKingArthursCourt
I think we are talking at slight cross purposes on terms of "majority privilege" and how this could impact the distribution of a country's resources and power. I am not implying that it means that individuals within a majority group have an equal share of this or even that most of the people in the majority group will have most of this. I am aware that the distribution of wealth and influence is incredibly uneven in most countries.

Out of curiosity, how would you define "white privilege"?
I'm reluctant to pretend to be an authority on this when I'm obviously not but I would attempt to define white privilege as the benefits and advantages bestowed on an individual solely because they are white. So white people not being subjected to stereotypes or prejudice as a result of their race is an example of white privilege. Race is at the heart of "white privilege" and the concept is fixed so irrespective of how the population or environment may change the idea is that "white privilege" can still exist. I believe white privilege is basically racism so needs to be eradicated.

I see this as being different to "majority privilege" which would be benefits and advantages bestowed on an individual because they are part of a majority group. So for example, using a language example, in most countries you will have "majority privilege" if you can speak the dominant language(s) of that country. So if I were to move to an English speaking country then I would be part of that group, but if I were to move to say Russia then I wouldn't. The advantage isn't centred on race but on being part of a majority and benefitting from the economies of scale and additional resources and choice this brings along with it. I'm not sure that in all cases it is practicable or necessarily desirable to seek to erase majority privilege in absolutely every case. Using the language example, it would be ludicrous for me to move to Russia and then demand that English was used as widely as Russian so that I was not disadvantaged for being in a minority.

[Athrawes]

I think you will find that the Leicester schools that you are referring to are religious not ethic. Just like Catholic schools etc.

[YankeeinKingArthursCourt]

@Bumpitybumper
I really appreciate your response. Thank you for this and for generating this discussion as well.

I see white privilege inextricably linked to power ( individually & systemically). I have lived (worked & travelled) as a "minority" white English speaker in non-white, non-English speaking countries. I may have felt some "temporary" disadvantages, but my power (& access to wealth, resources etc) in the long term far outweighed any temporary disadvantages.

Also, it's not a coincidence that the top 10 richest people in the world are all white men ( "majority" logic of population distribution, they should be mostly female & Chinese or Indian). The fact that none of them speak Mandarin ( most popular language globally) doesn't put them at a disadvantage b/c being white men, they have access to privilege & power that trumps all else.

This said, again, I appreciate your thoughtfulness & respectful manner throughout this post.

[Purpleandteal]

It depends on the Latin American country. Most importantly these "rich white people" are recent immigrants they don't come from the original conquistadors.

The prejudice is for the most part aesthetic (IMO). Almost all politicians are mestizo (in Mexico anyways) so a mix of white and native American. Celebrities on the other hand are mostly white (or white looking).

Phenotype is a bit odd. Diego Luna looks more typical Mexican than Gael Garcia, oddly enough genetically Diego is whiter than Gael.

Lower classes tend to be more indigenous than not but even then it's a very odd phenomenon. My nanny used to day that she had "European blood". Out handy man has green eyes.

Our family is very much mixed. My maternal side is for the most part Syrian Jewish and my paternal side is as mestizo as they come, my grandad looked normal mestizo, but my grandma looked indigenous. I might look white but I consider myself a minority (and a double one for that matter).

[Waveysnail]

I like posts like these. It opens my eyes. I'm white. Iv no idea how BAME people feel if not for these posts. Small changes. So will make sure my school uses kids plasters or clear or blue from now on.

[drspouse]

@Purpleandteal I've just been looking at the actors you mention and, for a comparison of appearance/skin tone I looked for "mestizo Mexican actors" and "Indigenous Mexican actors".
There is one SINGLE person who comes up in a search for indigenous Mexican actors. I'm guessing people of her appearance (Yalitza Aparicio) are in the majority in Mexico and yet there's ONE of her ethnicity on screens.
Imagine if you searched for "Black British actors" and you came up with one single actor. I remember people saying " in the 70s we'd call our family to the TV if a black person came on". So it's like the 70s still I guess?

[Purpleandteal]

Actually no, as you can see here:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.eleconomista.com.mx/amp/politica/Dos-de-cada-10-mexicanos-se-asumen-indigenas-20181212-0049.html

Indigenous people only make 20% of the population, 10% are white and 70% are mestizo.

That doesn't mean they aren't underrepresented though. Apart from her, I can only think of maybe other 2 that are 100% indigenous.

However our biggest statesman ever (Benito Juarez) was indigenous (from the same state as Yalitza). He was BFFs with Lincoln and separated church and state. But like O said, the political classes are more or less representative of our population. Celebrities/media not so much

[drspouse]

Interesting!

[YankeeinKingArthursCourt]

@Purpleandteal
That's an interesting perspective, thank you. I've seen other demographics for Mexico which indicate that "mestizo" is more of a cultural rather than a "racial" distinction. Population data I've seen indicate 23% white ( having blonde hair) whereas in some studies up to 51% of the population have the "Mongolian" spot ( indicative of indigenous population).
For the large part, those who are "white" or lighter skinned are in positions of political power & have wealth, land, resources etc.

Here's an article looking at race & access to power etc in Mexico. Sorry that the link is so bloomin long. theconversation-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/theconversation.com/amp/study-reveals-racial-inequality-in-mexico-disproving-its-race-blind-rhetoric-87661?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15918733368065&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fstudy-reveals-racial-inequality-in-mexico-disproving-its-race-blind-rhetoric-87661