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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be glad that I don't live in Ashbourne?

148 replies

MaxNormal · 10/06/2020 07:56

Locals there have seized a racist caricature statue and hidden it to keep it safe from removal. It's supposedly with a local Tory councillor, who laughed and hung up when phoned for comment.
AIBU to think that is indicative of a racist unpleasant place?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/09/derbyshire-towns-bust-of-black-man-seized-by-defiant-locals

OP posts:
CHIRIBAYA · 10/06/2020 11:26

I really don't get posts like this. Do you seriously think the world is full of people who are exclusively good or bad?? Can you please name a place on this planet, anywhere, that is populated by perfect human beings? How do you think the Nazis murdered so many millions given the limited number of German soliders and allies? He did that by mobilizing prejudice, ethnic, religious, political, social etc all across Europe and there was plenty of it. There's plenty of it here too so good luck finding somewhere where everyone has addressed and resolved their inbuilt internal biases.

nicky7654 · 10/06/2020 11:33

The people who will take it down because of BLM will these be the same people who were throwing bikes and bottles and flairs at the Police? Breaking a horses nose and causing a severe injuring to a Police lady?

Destroyedpeople · 10/06/2020 11:34

Is it like on of those wooden statues of a black manservant holding his hands out?

I saw one of those in someone's house once. My children were with me and insisted on putting crisps in his hands.....the hostess a ghastly old reptile was most put out.
Now someone will come along and say..." I would have walked out! I cannot believe you tolerated it! "

I do believe there is also one in the attic of my dad's house.....

WhereYouLeftIt · 10/06/2020 11:34

Interesting about the petitions too.

42,000 to have it removed.

4,000 to keep it.

Population of Ashbourne : 8,377 in the 2011 census.

So, around 33,000 of the 42,000 wanting it removed do not live in Ashbourne. It's anyone's guess how many of those 33,000 have ever been in Ashbourne or even know where it is.

There's no way to know how many of the 4,000 live in Ashbourne. But my guess would be, it's more likely than not that they'll be residents.

TiddlestheCat · 10/06/2020 11:38

What I would say about Ashbourne though, is that, in my experience, many residents wouldn't like 'outsiders' telling them what to do, particularly from other cities and especially from further a field. As is the way of some towns/villages in the countryside, regardless of the issue and that, as a traditional place, there would be a general resistance to change, no matter what.

That said, this debate does raise some interesting issues:

I find it interesting that so little is known about the historical context of the head. Particularly when people wish to see it kept on the basis of historical interest.

I had been dubious about the nice little black boy story and Sir Walter Raleigh. However, having read up on it, Sir Walter Raleigh did have connections to the town and apparently owned land there. He did indeed live with/was accompanied by a black man/family and that there were black people living and employed in the UK during Tudor times. So, that story does have some credence. But, assuming that there was a black boy and that the locals were affectionate towards him, the depiction of him nevertheless belongs to a different time. I can understand the resistance to sudden change by a group of 'outsiders' to local monuments that people had become accustomed to. But on the other hand, I think that towns/councils and or parliament should have legislated for their relocation to museums some time ago. I think that people should consider whether they attach genuine importance to some of these objects and whether that outweighs the potential upset/hurt/feelings of disrespect that they may cause to others.

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 11:40

He was a well-respected and well-loved Turkish man so in his honour they put his head up.

Yes, he was so well-respected that they couldn't even be arsed to carve out a head that actually looked like him, and instead just put up a head of a generic dark skinned caricature instead. Because unless this Turkish man was an actual cartoon, he looked nothing like that in real life.

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 11:44

It doesn’t mean anything. It’s just vandals jumping on a bandwagon

Ah, the voice of privilege speaking out loud and clear. It might not mean anything to you but it means a hell of a lot to a lot of people (but they have dark skin so who cares what they think eh?)

TiddlestheCat · 10/06/2020 11:46

@MaxNormal

I am sorry that someone said that to you online!
If you were to visit Ashbourne, and I would encourage you to do so, I would doubt that anyone would say such a thing to you. It is the gateway to The Peak District, there is some amazing scenery around there and it sells some amazing Ashbourne Gingerbread! Give it a go.

LastTrainEast · 10/06/2020 12:04

MaxNormal So you're prone to lump people into groups and make generalisations about them. What is it you are opposing again?

cdtaylornats · 10/06/2020 12:06

It is the hypocrisy of this movement that annoys me - Get rid of Cecil Rhodes statue. You'll want us to close the scholarships in his name then? No!

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 12:09

Destroying statues worked for the Taliban.

bibbitybobbitycats · 10/06/2020 12:09

@nicky7654

The people who will take it down because of BLM will these be the same people who were throwing bikes and bottles and flairs at the Police? Breaking a horses nose and causing a severe injuring to a Police lady?
Wasn't the wounded horse in Dallas not UK? Which police lady do you mean, the one who ran into a traffic light, which knocked her off her horse? If you mean other incidents, can you provide links as I haven't seen. Ta muchly.
deydododatdodontdeydo · 10/06/2020 12:11

Breaking a horses nose and causing a severe injuring to a Police lady?

There's a video of her riding her horse into a traffic light. Protestors didn't cause the injury to her or the horse.

TippledPink · 10/06/2020 12:16

deydododatdodontdeydo Someone pushed a bike into the horse, causing it to panic and run into a traffic light. It was not the policewoman's fault, it was those abusing the horses.

And it was the UK that someone threw a brick at the horse and broke its nose.

BashStreetKid · 10/06/2020 12:17

We can’t change the past, we can only learn from it, and dragging statues down because you’re trying to erase what happened isn’t going to help.

Rest assured, absolutely no-one is tearing down statues like Colston's because they want to erase what happened. There is no danger whatsoever of us all forgetting the dreadful reality of slavery just because there is no longer a statue to Colston in Bristol.

BashStreetKid · 10/06/2020 12:20

@cdtaylornats

It is the hypocrisy of this movement that annoys me - Get rid of Cecil Rhodes statue. You'll want us to close the scholarships in his name then? No!
If you can't see the difference, you aren't applying basic logic. Have a look at @IWantT0BreakFree's post upthread. Read and learn.
Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 12:20

Destroying statues worked for the Taliban.

Sorry, could you expand on your point here? Because it sounds like you are comparing black people, who don't want statues of the murderers of their ancestors all over the country, to... The Taliban? Confused

SummerDayWinterEvenings · 10/06/2020 12:21

@MaxNormal

So it's been removed -it's gone. The problem is?

It's been removed "to safety" with the view of putting it back up again once what they refer to as the fuss has died down.

No I've never been to Ashbourne and I'm genuinely not trying to suggest that everyone there is horrible, another local did say the majority support it's removal, just shocked that a vocal and clearly not very pleasant minority including town councillors seem to be dominating on this issue.

Good. Let's hope it's been removed to safety for eternity then - in a bin. I doubt it will come back. Send an email to the parish / county concillor to ask formally where it is and what they plans are with it if you are that concerned. Job done. There was a plaque round here that 10 years ago someone complained about (can't remember why but something not nice on it!) it was removed for cleaning and no one has seen it since.
frumpety · 10/06/2020 12:22

From a purely aesthetic point of view, would now be a good time to put something up that more resembles a Turkish man if that is who it is supposed to comemmorate ?

Destroyedpeople · 10/06/2020 12:22

Ye all this mewing about 'erasing' or 'whitewashing' history is entirely specious. As I have said before...the amount of brits who now know who this Colston was and that Bristol was built on slavery has now increased a hundred fold. ..so how is that 'whitewashing' history?

Interesting verb in fact...all of our school history has been 'whitewashed ' hasn't it?

Enderthedragon · 10/06/2020 12:26

Ye all this mewing about 'erasing' or 'whitewashing' history is entirely specious. As I have said before...the amount of brits who now know who this Colston was and that Bristol was built on slavery has now increased a hundred fold. ..so how is that 'whitewashing' history?

Exactly.

But they are talking about erasing the history that we have been fed, that's the one they want to try and preserve. Because the actual history, the one that was actually erased, is far to uncomfortable to contemplate.

Boo fucking hoo.

Nanalisa60 · 10/06/2020 12:26

TiddlestheCat

GINGERBREAD- I would be carful if I was you!! us Gingers have feelings

😀😀😀

Notejode · 10/06/2020 12:31

Tbh the big majority are in their houses looking and making up their minds. BLM called protests during a pandemic. I think that says it all.

I guest many are agreeing with the motto of BLM but questioning the organisation.

midsomermurderess · 10/06/2020 12:32

Leckford stop being so silly. If your only contribution to anything is a Trumpian 'fake news' I doubt you're welcome anywhere. You exhibit profound lack of intelligence.

Notejode · 10/06/2020 12:32

Guess not guest.