To be glad that I don't live in Ashbourne?

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Locals there have seized a racist caricature statue and hidden it to keep it safe from removal. It's supposedly with a local Tory councillor, who laughed and hung up when phoned for comment.
AIBU to think that is indicative of a racist unpleasant place?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/09/derbyshire-towns-bust-of-black-man-seized-by-defiant-locals

I notice no one is rushing to shut down the schools and hospitals endowed by these people.

I don't see many Rhodes scholar's handing back the grants.

I read the comments section earlier in the week (I know not reliable at all!) and I’ve since tried to find out more but now all I can see are articles about it being racist. The residents gave a story about how the statue was because it was of a little boy that the town loved and they put it there to show he was always welcome- don’t know how true that is. I think the statue looks awful though and should be taken down but not destroyed, it should be kept in a museum as it is part of the towns history. I’d be interested in finding out the true story of the little boy though if anyone knows more?

just shocked that a vocal and clearly not very pleasant minority including town councillors seem to be dominating on this issue.

Unfortunately that's the door we opened when we supported mobs taking down statues.

I'm delighted the statue of Colston is gone. I even cheered to myself when I heard it had been toppled and thrown into the dock.

But then I had another think and I realised that just because I agree with THIS mob doesn't mean I want self righteous mobs making what should be joint civic decisions in a democracy.

I have noticed a lot of suspicious conjecture about who might be a racist in recent days, and I think it's very ugly and dangerous.

We live in a society with huge amounts of structural racism and small numbers of people of people who actively and consciously hate people of other races.

The argument has basically been won (belatedly IMO) that there is no need to keep statues of dead slave traders as a celebration of their "achievements".

So let us go about it. But not as a mob seeking out the racism in people's hearts. Most of us think racist thoughts, given the society we were raised in.

I'm a feminist and I catch myself thinking sexist thoughts after years of their normalisation.

Maybe people in Ashbourne like their statue. People are often very attached to public landmarks.

Is the statue racist? I don't know, it sounds like it is. Are their non-racist reasons for wanting to keep it? Almost certainly.

The statue is gone, either way. The people who wanted it gone have what they want.

Who cares if the statue is "safe"?

Unless you wanted to destroy it in another public act of mob desecration?

And now you are stirring up the idea that an entire town is racist?

Please don't.

It's put Ashbourne on the map, I'd never even heard of it and will probably forget it by tomorrow.

It’s something in the Guardian so probably not true, they like stirring up trouble, just read anything Owen Jones. The perpetually offended columist

Yes, and I think Owen Jones is always inciting anarchism and violence. How can he get away with this? 🤔

@Nihiloxica

I thought mobs doing things to statues was OK now?

Boom!

I grew up in Ashbourne and it's a lovely little town. I think that it's terrible that you can decide that all residents in there are racist (particularly with knowing very little about the place). It's a divisive thing to say. As for taking the head down to protect it, is this not dissimilar to what is happening with statutes all over the country? And ultimately, the head has now been removed. I doubt that it will ever be reinstated.

Tut tut Nihiloxica stop trying to make out that we're mindlessly setting loony precedences these days.

It's bloody horrible, the red, white and blue turban thing is a particularly grim touch. One thing I don't get though is that on the BBC site it seems to be smiling in one picture and not in the other?

A tolerance for this sort of thing indicates a certain way of thinking IMO. I went to a cafe in the countryside once, which had Robertson's Golly posters on the wall, along with some newspaper articles complaining about travellers. Never went there again!

Did you read the article? 42,000 people signed a petition to get it removed. There are bad apples - racists in your town too. Xenophobes in literally every country. If you judge every place by its minority then what does that mean for you?

So you have got into squabble with a local on Facebook and then come on to mumsnet to slag off a whole town as a result?

I live in a very liberal area but I can see a few of the local Tory councillors doing something like this.

If we destroy everything we don't like now how can we show people in the future what it was and why we now find it offensive?

I think that it's terrible that you can decide that all residents in there are racist (particularly with knowing very little about the place).

I specifically quoted what the article had said, namely that it was a minority, of course I don't think that all residents there are racist. However it did also mention that although the majority disagreed with the statue, they felt unable to say anything because the minority was a particularly vocal one.

Anyway apologies to anyone I've offended, I clearly phrased the question in a more provocative way than I meant to, the story just got to me for some reason.

I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Ashbourne and have noted the old inn sign (the cause of dispute). I can’t say whether or not Ashbourne harbours any more racism than anywhere else. I do feel there needs to be some thought about how we manage artefacts from the past now considered celebratory of unacceptable ideas. The inn sign says something about historic Ashbourne, nothing tangible about modern Ashbourne. The statues that have been pulled down say something about our past relationship with the politics of oppression and we do well to be reminded of what depravity humans are capable. That doesn’t mean glorifying abuse or racism. It might mean a conversation nationally about what we do with such statues, or whether they and perhaps the inn sign are best suited to a museum in context, not high streets or public squares. That said, I’m uncomfortable with the sort of reverse historiography that wants to remove the evidence of the past that is no longer acceptable in the present.

I don’t think it reflects well on their town at all but I doubt everyone who lives there thinks the same way as the ones who hid the bust.

I’ve noticed a lot more hostility in the last few years towards people who are not British born and those who are perceived as not British. And I’m white and born here to British parents. It makes me uncomfortable and angry so god only knows how horrible it must be for those on the receiving end of it.

MonsteraCheeseplant it says 4,000 in the BBC article?

I'm all for removing statues that offend people due to historical offences, despite any good coming from their legacy.

Dragging down statues, vandalism and defacing property is the type of thing you see in civil wars. We are not there - yet.

Perhaps they took it down, not to keep it safe for later, but because they don't want a baying mob vandalising this and other stuff in their peaceful town centre.

@Nihiloxica

Nice to see a balanced viewpoint.

A tolerance for this sort of thing indicates a certain way of thinking IMO.

If only there was some way we could ban thinking in certain ways...

We might be able to come up with a snappy name for it so people knew not to do it.

@MarginalGain never

Is the head even of a black person?
I understand it was attached to a grade 2 listed property.

To be honest I would be more concerned with other public houses including in Heage, Derbyshire called the Black Boy. The pubs sign has a black boy on. Why are these not being mentioned if there are such concerns over the black head statue.

@nihiloxica good post

Seems as though there has been unease about the head for a few years.
thetab.com/uk/hull/2015/06/29/ashbourne-backwards-town-country-6800

"Alice, a local and recent uni graduate, revealed how children would tease people with olive skin as being black. She said: “Because everyone in the school was white, people didn’t have any targets for their racism. So they would just decide kids who had olive skin were black, and make fun of them. Our P.E. teacher had a bit of a tan and ‘Mr. is a P*’ got spray painted on a wall in the park.”

@bibbitybobbitycats wasn't it 40,000 to get it removed and 4,000 to keep it ?

^If only there was some way we could ban thinking in certain ways...
^
Well, the BBC Iplayer has dropped Little Britain. Hopefully this will help.

Do you even know when Ashbourne is?

Ashbourne is a lovely place and it gets many tourists through every year.

What are you hoping to achieve? Get more mobs and violence in a very small country town? I am glad you don't live here as well.

@MarginalGain

^If only there was some way we could ban thinking in certain ways... ^ Well, the BBC Iplayer has dropped Little Britain. Hopefully this will help.

I have hated that show since it first came out and now I am forced to defend it.

Could they not just have taken it down because it's shite? I could live with that.

It's the fuckers who loved it despite it being crap that want it down now.