JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@Giespeace I hope you feel better soon

[Shoxfordian]

I agree with Daniel Radcliffe

www.thetrevorproject.org/2020/06/08/daniel-radcliffe-responds-to-j-k-rowlings-tweets-on-gender-identity/

[Zug2]

She is being misquoted on purpose, and bullied to meet someone else agenda. JK Rowling is totally 100% correct.

[Giespeace]

@Thepigeonsarecoming
Thank you!
And thank you for keeping the thread good humoured. There’s been far too much aggression and nastiness around this issue previously.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

I just can’t understand how some surgery and a declaration of “I am” can equal lived experience.

"I am whatever I say I am!" is the logic of a toddler.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

(Also, hope your tooth issue resolves itself!)

[TankGirl97]

I clicked YANBU purely because you completely distorted what JK actually said just to antagonise people.

I have no problem with a phrase like 'women and others who menstruate'. I just get pissed off when women are erased.

[Melia100]

Seriously, of all the people on this earth at the moment, Joanne Rowling, and what she believes about women (which is basically feminism 101) is an urgent matter of the hour?

[Pinklynx]

We should all tweet in defence of her if we voted YANBU. I already have last night. So many people are piling in on her from the liberal left and the militant MRAs. There are so many aggressive messages it seems like a coordinated attack. I wouldn't be surprised if it's people with several accounts lining up to accuse her of all sorts of rubbish. Lots of straw men. And a large helping of abuse. Oh the irony.

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@Giespeace we can only understand ourselves when we understand our neighbours (or something equally cringeworthy!). Take care x

[Mummyoflittledragon]

[quote TheProdigalKittensReturn]**@giespeace if medicine/science evolves to allow trans women to experience menstrual bleeding would you then accept them as women? Just wondering where the line in science will stand for you?

My question at that point would be why research and development time was being wasted on creating fake periods for emotional validation purposes. The world is full of people suffering from medical conditions that have real, unavoidably physical symptoms and consequences, and would be better served by people capable of medical research focusing on alleviating their actual, physical suffering. Medicine as a whole should not go the way of plastic surgery.

That sort of constant pushing of boundaries and refusal to accept a "no" - but what if we did this? no? well how about this? sure it's not possible but what if? well then if you say no because A then how about if we did B? - would in any other context be recognized as coercive, abusive behavior. No, humans can't change sex. No, the refusal to accept women's first "no" does not mean that you're right, it just means that you don't respect other people's boundaries. No, the vast majority of people aren't buying these arguments and won't no matter how many times you rephrase them. Look at the ratio (here and on any media article that allows comments) if you don't believe me.[/quote]
I totally agree with this as someone suffering from a “fake” illness, which has ruined my life (Chronic fatigue syndrome). Finally finally it is being revisited since it was categorised as psychological in the 80’s by, yes, a man.

Fake wombs and fake bleeding are sexy in the scientific world unlike “fake” illnesses, which disproportionately affect women. And if these transwomen were then able to get pregnant, would this mean they’d need donor eggs? Shudder. On the plus side, they’d have readily available sperm if they decided to freeze samples. Or perhaps even kept their penis.

[GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou]

Daniel Radcliffe's comments on this are a real disappointment.

I am such a fan of his but he has totally misrepresented what JK has ever said.

It reads like he hasn't actually read her opinions and has been told a one-sided, incorrect account of things and is now defending what doesn't need to be defended.

[isabellerossignol]

"I am whatever I say I am!" is the logic of a toddler.

Indeed. To use a current example, I wonder how Daniel Radcliffe would feel if I suddenly declared that actually I identify as Daniel Radcliffe. And the movie industry's refusal to pay me a fortune and accept me as a twenty something male is invalidating my right to exist, and my dignity. And that's literal violence and I might be driven to suicide. And actually, I'm more of a Daniel Radcliffe than he is. I'm an authentic Daniel Radcliffe. He's just a subset of Daniel Radcliffe. A cis-Daniel. I mean, logically I'd say that he'd think I was a smartarse pisstaker, trying to play power games with him. But based on his recent statement, he'd presumably be fine with it and would welcome it with open arms. Who knew these privileged types were so generous, eh?

[Melia100]

Daniel Radcliffe is a mealy mouthed pillock who wouldn't know a strong woman if she came and knocked him on the head.

Transwomen are transwomen, and they form part of the set, males.

[eurochick]

Of course JK is right. Biological sex matters.

[TankGirl97]

Also my presumption is 'others who menstruate' refers to trans men (who often would be people who menstruate) and not trans women.

[Melia100]

And who are transmen?
Part of the set of women.

Only girls and women have periods.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

Exactly, Mummyoflittledragon. How long did it take to get say lupus taken seriously, just because it predominantly affects women? And that has actual physical symptoms, not just "I feel sad when people won't pretend that human sexual dimorphism doesn't exist".

[Pinklynx]

Seriously, of all the people on this earth at the moment, Joanne Rowling, and what she believes about women (which is basically feminism 101) is an urgent matter of the hour?

It's pretty damn important yes. Because if feminism 101 is under threat and it's seemingly okay, indeed freethinking, in the Zeitgeist for both intelligent, liberal thinking women and aggressive, angry men to unite to attack a woman for saying we should use the word woman rather than people who menstruate (it's apparently fine to use the term men rather than people who have a prostate gland btw) then our rights are at risk. By stealth and by our own hand as well as by misogynistic men who must be loving this.

It's as if Candace Owens was joined by the BLM lives matter movement to defend white people foe using the All Lives Matter hashtag.

You do realise that we can worry about this AND the pandemic, the economy, our future and BLM don't you?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@TankGirl97 “ I clicked YANBU purely because you completely distorted what JK actually said just to antagonise people“.

I truly didn’t, I have on here debated back and forth on whether what she said is right. It was also only a quote and that was quite clear

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

A huge YANBU. One of the most horrifying things about this is how many awful things are being put in her mouth and being claimed that she said (that she didn't) or really means (that she doesn't) which are then being used as a stick to beat her with.
She is getting rape and death threats, and the vilest most misogynist abuse. Its nothing other than a witch hunt complete with baying mob.
It would be bad enough if it were just that, but the hordes of people jumping in to condemn her, mostly for things she hasn't even said while dismissing the abuse is even worse, just so they can make it clear they're on the side of the mob. (I'm looking at you Daniel Radcliffe).
It's one of the most blatant and intense societal displays of woman hatred I've seen in my lifetime.

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

When the pandemic is finally over and we can all emerge from our homes and go back to some semblance of the lives we used to have, what kind of world will we be going back to? Do we care? If so then yes, this attempt to silence the world's most successful living author matters, and BLM matters. We can't just hit the pause button on everything.

[GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou]

@JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown

One of the most horrifying things about this is how many awful things are being put in her mouth and being claimed that she said (that she didn't) or really means (that she doesn't) which are then being used as a stick to beat her with.

Exactly, even with Daniel Radcliffe who I believe has always seemed pretty level headed has come out and taken everything she has said out of context.

Argh, why do they do that?

[Ohtherewearethen]

Transwonen feeling they need to bleed so that they 'feel' more of a woman is unbelievable. It's gender appropriation.

[snappycamper]

She is being misquoted on purpose, and bullied to meet someone else agenda. JK Rowling is totally 100% correct.

This.