JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

@MsSafina I think the term ‘people who menstruate’ is not meant to include transwomen (people born with a male body who identify as women).

It includes women who have periods, transmen who have periods (people born in female bodies who identify as men but have not fully physically transitioned) and I guess others who identify as other/no gender but have female equipment and are post puberty/pre menopausal.

So it is not an attempt to pretend that transwomen menstruate in order not to upset them.

It is an attempt to respect the identity/feelings of transmen and help them to feel included in whatever health care or sanitary product is being offered.

Thank you igglepiggle that does make sense.

Stating reality is not hateful. Many trans women also agree they are not women, likewise with trans men. Many truths are uncomfortable but that’s the way it is.

I feel great sympathy for those suffering from genuine dysphoria, who can only find relief by modifying their bodies with surgery and hormones.

I have none whatsoever for AGP men who have jumped on this bandwagon just to fulfil their narcissistic fantasies. They must be kept out of our spaces and that means a flat no to self-ID.

Snitzel - others will prob explain it better, but women have sex-based rights in the UK under the Equality Act. "Sex" is the protected characteristic.

Trans people also have protected rights, under the protected characteristic "gender reassignment".

Trans people can apply for a gender recognition certificate, which to all intents and purposes, recognises them legally as the opposite sex.

HOWEVER, there is legislation in the equality act that makes it legal to discriminate against men, and in certain cases, transwomen with a GRC, to protect biological women's rights. A good example being single sex spaces, women's sports.

TRAs and Stonewall want to change this - they want anybody to be able to self-identify as the opposite sex, and to get rid of the exemptions under the equality act. They literally want the law to recognise that transwomen are women just because they say they are. Many women obviously fear that this will threaten our existing rights under the Equality Act.

Women have already been damaged by this - for example the women in prisons who have been sexually assaulted by transwomen with intact penises in prison.

I can't really answer your question because it's so loaded/ weighted towards a particular view. Try a new thread with an unbiased question for more accurate results.

@Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket. I think you have put it really well.
I think JK Rowling would completely agree with you which makes it more difficult to comprehend why she gets such vitriol.
Trans people are protected by laws and should be deserving of respect. Unfortunately some people, trans or otherwise don’t want to give the same protections or respect to biological women.
I have been told that there’s nothing particularly special about being a biological woman by a trans man.

She only gets so much hate from uber-woke Twitter wankers because she’s a woman. Misogyny.

All those people on twitter telling JKR to 'suck my dick' are so imagative

If there is going to be a scientific change around periods couldn't it be in favour of women. Couldn't it be to stop the pain and all the other side affects that we have to endure every month but still allows us to get pregnant if we want. Rather than looking at ways for biological men to menstruate.

Jo Rowling is an amazing woman. She is brave, intelligent and correct.

Another opinion for you:

A woman makes a speech at an academic institution, a speech nothing about any Trans issues, but about domestic violence.

As she leaves a person with a beard, lunges at her from an alley in the dark, but security guards manage to pull her to safety and she leaves. She later calmly tells her Twitter followers that following the attack she is fine, the guards intercepted the man.

She is then denounced and hounded with vitriolic abuse for misgendering the trans woman who was trying to punch her.

Do you think it is transphobic to refer to a person with a beard you glimpsed in the dark as they were trying to punch you as ‘he’?

Next opinion: Daniel Radcliffe’s letter about JKR was asserting that Transwomen are Women. I.e speaking in behalf of people who like him were (if you like) assigned male at birth and will never menstruate. Why do you think he didn’t mention the Trans People arguably more affected by JKR’s comments about people who menstruate being women, i.e Trans Men? Given that many Trans Men do menstruate?

So why was he talking about Transwomen?

She stated biological truth. That enrages some, mainly males.

@TreeTopTim

All those people on twitter telling JKR to 'suck my dick' are so imagative

If there is going to be a scientific change around periods couldn't it be in favour of women. Couldn't it be to stop the pain and all the other side affects that we have to endure every month but still allows us to get pregnant if we want. Rather than looking at ways for biological men to menstruate.

I'd love to think so and it seems way more logical but... thinking about human history I can take a guess at which one I think would be more likely. Maybe I'm just a cynic though

@snitzelvoncrumb have a look at this thread. It should hopefully help

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?

@Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket you’re pretty close to most opinions on FWR. Obviously we don’t all agree, no more than posters agree generally on MN. It’s def not a hive mind.

I know for me FWR seemed daunting and intimidating cos there’s some ferociously intelligent women who post there. I’m sadly not that bright, but I’ve never been made to feel stupid or unwelcome.

To define women as 'mensturaters' is to define us to a biological function.

I have NEVER heard of bio males being or transwomen being called 'sperm havers' or the like.

I love the way Daniel Radcliffe's response was all about transwomen, when if he was so fucking offended by JK saying women have periods, his post should have been about excluding transmen who still have periods.

It's all still centred around men's feelz.

I happened to see a JKR thread on another (huge, popular) forum furthering the silly argument that JKR's tweet was insulting to women who no longer menstruate - 'are they not women then??'

I replied with the barest of facts - not all women menstruate, but everyone who menstruates is a woman.

Post deleted, warned by email that I'm in danger of being banned for 'blatant transphobia' (this was my first and only post on the matter.)

It brought it home to me with a shock that this really is the strange new world we live in now, that we really aren't allowed to state facts in public now and WILL be silenced.

Nobody cares about transmen.

Transmen are female.

The two things are probably linked.

This is the same as it ever was.

Absolutely. Daniel’s mantra of “transwomen are women” was irrelevant in the context of what JK said. He should have said “transmen are men”. But of course, he’s not interested in transmen. I wonder why transwomen have so much more influence than transmen? Could it be that they are, in fact, men?

YANBU

I was talking to adult ds1 and his partner yesterday

I read a funny comment about this to ds1, his partner didnt know too much about it, just read what other people had said about the situation

I paraphrased and partner tried telling me that it obviously Wasnt what id said, JKR had obviously said something worse

Ds1 told him that i was correct and paraphrased the rest of her comment

Even then his partner could not get his head around the fact That JKR is receiving this level of viterol for a twitter Post that he himself agrees with

She must have said worse, that’s the only explanation for him

I posted this to fb/IG yesterday. Mainly just to articulate all the shit in my head about it.
Pretty much had zero response. Is the subject just that taboo now that no one will touch it?
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chloehunt7132 Why is Harry Potter apologising for JK Rowling?

Why, in a debate about menstruation, has he and those vehemently against Jo, failed to mention Trans men once?
Surely they're the only people this effects? I must be missing something, as are they (Begins with a P). The sheer audacity of him apologising on behalf of the woman to whom he owes his privilege is a gorgeous example of prevaling patriarchy.

Why has a minority of a minority relabled 51% of the worlds population as 'Cis women', whilst misgendering a person is now a criminal offence in several countries.

In my role as a midwife and doula I have cared for women, who, as a direct result of their genetalia, have been denied education to the extent that they are unable to sign their own name on medical consent forms.

To downplay the existence of sex differences and to remove the word woman from general discourse shits on the lived experiences of women the world over.
Jo ain't transphobic. She's pro women. They fact that those two movements are viewed in opposition should say it all.
Ill be a 'person with a cervix' when there's 'people with testicles'. Get out your pitchforks.

She must have said worse, that’s the only explanation for him

Because lots of people still believe that if a woman cops abuse, she brought it on herself somehow.

@ApplesinmyPocket

I happened to see a JKR thread on another (huge, popular) forum furthering the silly argument that JKR's tweet was insulting to women who no longer menstruate - 'are they not women then??'

I replied with the barest of facts - not all women menstruate, but everyone who menstruates is a woman.

Post deleted, warned by email that I'm in danger of being banned for 'blatant transphobia' (this was my first and only post on the matter.)

It brought it home to me with a shock that this really is the strange new world we live in now, that we really aren't allowed to state facts in public now and WILL be silenced.

Digital Spy?

Firstly I agree with JK, I am a woman not a ‘person who menstruates’. But whatever you think of her views, the comments on Twitter are vile.
Secondly I think it’s a shame all this happened at the same time as the publication of the Ickabog. Children who were reading it could send it pictures of their drawings and JK was tweeting them with nice comments like ‘what a lovely drawing of a dragon by 7yr old Sarah, nice use of colour in the wings’ (I am paraphrasing, she obviously wrote it much better than that) and people were commenting things like ‘yes but does Sarah have a penis JK?’.
What sort of sick person thinks it’s ok to post comments about penises on a child’s drawing? And get praised for it? Really disgusting. In any other context they would have been called out for paedophilia.

Because lots of people still believe that if a woman cops abuse, she brought it on herself somehow

Partly maybe, but also he believes that when people complain about someone being transphobic, that the person has obviously been transphobic...that no one would lie about it

And obviously transphobic abuse is horrific...not just someone saying that sex matters!

@RufustheLanglovingreindeer

Because lots of people still believe that if a woman cops abuse, she brought it on herself somehow

Partly maybe, but also he believes that when people complain about someone being transphobic, that the person has obviously been transphobic...that no one would lie about it

And obviously transphobic abuse is horrific...not just someone saying that sex matters!

“Transphobic” is a meaningless word that is shouted to shut people (mainly women) up.

Saying ‘sex matters’ is considered transphobic, what is horrific about say sex matters?