Are we complete idiots?

[Happy20]

We have an ongoing issue with a boundary which isn't as easily answered as you would think! Basically the neighbors think a piece of land is there's when we are pretty sure it's ours.


When we brought our house the sellers said a meadow at the bottom of our drive was theirs, they mowed it and used it, even had a couple sheep on it once.
We moved in, all fine and dandy until the next weekend when neighbour is out there mowing the meadow. Very kind of him we think because obviously he is being neighbourly what with us having only just moved in. We think we've struck it rich with such lovely, thoughtful neighbours. Wife of neighbour comes round the next day with a welcome card and has a nice superficial chat. We thank her profusely for mowing our meadow and offer to help them out if they ever need a hand, well you can probably see where this is going. Neighbour tells us it's their meadow and there must have been a mix up. We explain what the old owners told us and she claims they ' must have been talking about another bit of land as it has always been theirs'. After much awkwardness and many protesting about how old neighbours must have pulled a fast one (without actually saying they have pulled a fast one) we leave it at we will talk to our solicitor and her being nice but increasingly frosty. I think she honestly thought we would just say it's fine and not bother with taking it any further. She seemed very out out that we would be talking to the solicitor and old owners solicitor.

Now is the massive issue!

Our house is very old, the deeds were lost a long time ago. We have insurance to cover the lack of deeds (can't remember what it's called but our solicitor insisted we needed this) and can see up to date deeds from our sale with the old owners, but cannot find anything further back than that.

So YABU - leave the neighbors to it. You brought a house with no deeds just hope they don't want to build on it.
YANBU - it's clearly your land and the are trying to pull a fast one.

We are waiting on a call back from our solicitor but in the meantime does anyone have any ideas where we might find really old, long list deeds? I would be forever grateful!!

[jetsetter87]

I was just about to say what auditangel said- didnyour solicitor ever say anything about the meadow? Was it mentioned in the particulars ofbyour contract? A person can say anything they want but i would expect buyer to check and make sure all in place
Hope it gets clarified soon!

[wizzbangfizz]

Is def be asking the neighbours if they have it on their deeds in the first instance

[jetsetter87]

Just seen your update op
If they do own it and can prove as such then planning permission would be sought to build and you could object this if needed surely?

[Ginkypig]

If no one owns it then I would assume there would be law for the possibility of surrounding properties to adopt a % each of it so each of you add a piece to your land.

but I know nothing about it and would have thought there could be fighting over how much each of you own.

[Happy20]

No the meadow is not on our paperwork. I did question it at the time and we were meant to get an answer but the old owners were pushing hard and then threatened to pull out if it took any longer. There was a mix up at the solicitors and everything went through last minute. Quite honestly it was a shit show and it was a case of move now or the whole chain was going to fall apart.

The old owners did reiterate it was theirs but obviously they would do.

The neighbours were not using it on the times we viewed or the times we did a drive by to check how busy/loud it was.

[BobbieDraper]

Why wasnt this picked up during the sale? Did you just assume it would be tours despite no proof of purchase?

[wizzbangfizz]

Was it mentioned as part of the description of the house when it was sold, "additional land belonging to the property" would have been a strong selling point and the EA would surely have used it.

[WhenISnappedAndFarted]

Is there anything written down by the old owners stating that they owned it?

[TriangleBingoBongo]

So there’s nothing to suggest it is yours except for the vague word of your vendors. You’re aware it isn’t included in your boundary and you have absolutely no proof of ownership. What’s the indemnity insurance actually for? You don’t get indemnity for a random piece of land. You might get it for possessory title but that’s not what you have, you have no title to this piece of land.

[BobbieDraper]

If your sellers were telling the truth about taking care of it and keeping sheep on it etc then they should have applied for adverse possession before the sale went through. You cant because you havent been looking after it.
Your neighbours can now attempt it, but even if they lose it still isnt yours because it isnt on your deeds.

[Boulshired]

Do you have any proof that the previous owners said it belonged to them? Whilst the solicitor should never have let it get this far, they cannot lie in their selling details.

[Ickabog]

but the old owners were pushing hard and then threatened to pull out if it took any longer

It definitely sounds like the old owners knew they the meadow didn't belong to them, and used threats of pulling out to get you to proceed as there was no proof they owned it.

[Happy20]

On the brochure it said in 1.5 acres of land but didn't actually specify the layout.
The house and garden could probably be pushed to standing in about an acre and a bit with artistic license. The meadow is probably about .5 of an acre.

[Standrewsschool]

Has the house sold previously. If so, can you find any old house details on it?

[Boulshired]

I would take a photo of the gate and email to your solicitor as even though it does not prove ownership it could show a right of access.

[DobbyTheHouseElk]

.

[Happy20]

The indemnity insurance is for the house and land. Incase a person comes along with a copy of really old deeds and say actually we owned it all along. We were told we needed this.

So there is no way of finding the original deeds then?
Clearly it looks like we were idiot's but we loved the house and really we just felt pushed into completing to everyone else's timeline.

[NameChangerSpaceRanger]

Its not yours. They may be able to get title by adverse possession. Planning law will cover whether they can build on it.

Simple as that really.

There may be a claim against your solicitor but it sounds like you weren't on top of the legals so this may well have been spelled out to you at the time!

[Boulshired]

TBH it could be better having a conversation with a surveyor than a solicitor.

[WhenPushComesToShove]

Oh dear...

[BobbieDraper]

If they've marketed it with the land then you need to start speaking to a solicitor about the failure of the estate agents, and everyone involved in the process (including your solicitor).

[chocolateisavegetable]

Are there other neighbours who you could ask about the meadow? They might be able to tell you whether your home's previous owners treated the meadow as theirs or not. I mention this as we had an issue with a previous house and a neighbour trying to claim rights, but then a different neighbour who had lived there for more than 40 years helped us out. Without going into detail, the neighbour trying to claim rights had actually lost their rights because they hadn't used that right for so long. (sorry to be vague - trying not to out myself!)

[BobbieDraper]

The indemnity insurers will only cover what is on your deeds, so it doesnt cover the house and land. It covers the house and the garden marked out on the deeds. Someone else has come along and said they own it, and your indemnity insurers does nothing to help you because you didnt have the land registered and put on the deeds before the sale.

[Boulshired]

If the previous owners have sold you 1.5 acres then your land should measure 1.5 acres. The solicitor has completely failed if the meadow was .5 of an acre and has allowed this sale to proceed.

[Thisismytimetoshine]

How can you have bought a property "thinking" that the adjoining land came with the plot? Did your solicitor not ascertain whether this was in fact the case??