Are we complete idiots?

[Happy20]

We have an ongoing issue with a boundary which isn't as easily answered as you would think! Basically the neighbors think a piece of land is there's when we are pretty sure it's ours.


When we brought our house the sellers said a meadow at the bottom of our drive was theirs, they mowed it and used it, even had a couple sheep on it once.
We moved in, all fine and dandy until the next weekend when neighbour is out there mowing the meadow. Very kind of him we think because obviously he is being neighbourly what with us having only just moved in. We think we've struck it rich with such lovely, thoughtful neighbours. Wife of neighbour comes round the next day with a welcome card and has a nice superficial chat. We thank her profusely for mowing our meadow and offer to help them out if they ever need a hand, well you can probably see where this is going. Neighbour tells us it's their meadow and there must have been a mix up. We explain what the old owners told us and she claims they ' must have been talking about another bit of land as it has always been theirs'. After much awkwardness and many protesting about how old neighbours must have pulled a fast one (without actually saying they have pulled a fast one) we leave it at we will talk to our solicitor and her being nice but increasingly frosty. I think she honestly thought we would just say it's fine and not bother with taking it any further. She seemed very out out that we would be talking to the solicitor and old owners solicitor.

Now is the massive issue!

Our house is very old, the deeds were lost a long time ago. We have insurance to cover the lack of deeds (can't remember what it's called but our solicitor insisted we needed this) and can see up to date deeds from our sale with the old owners, but cannot find anything further back than that.

So YABU - leave the neighbors to it. You brought a house with no deeds just hope they don't want to build on it.
YANBU - it's clearly your land and the are trying to pull a fast one.

We are waiting on a call back from our solicitor but in the meantime does anyone have any ideas where we might find really old, long list deeds? I would be forever grateful!!

[species5618]

DogBowlSpaghetti
So solicitors can make mistakes then - sorry, couldn't resist commenting.

[Allmyeye]

Sorry looks like you’ve already had that discussion🙈

[Allmyeye]

How long did previous owners look after it for? Isn’t there something about after so long it becomes yours? In the dark recesses of my mind I’m thinking about a squatter getting a house after so long because he wasn’t served papers to remove him.

[EggysMom]

[quote MinecraftMother]@Hingeandbracket

Didn't you just give him his half?[/quote]
That would show the whole transaction going through Hingeandbracket's bank account and then a large amount going out - giving the potential for problems with the bank (money laundering) or the DWP (deprivation of capital). Far better to bank a cheque for the correct amount.

[Evalina]

If there is no evidence of an owner or exclusive access to the meadow by either the former owner of your property or your neighbour, then you need to work out a plan going forward.

It might be possible for you and your neighbour to fence in half the meadow each, with exclusive access to your own halves. Then sit tight for 10 years (or whatever the qualifying period is) and then submit a claim to the Land Registry in the future. In the meantime you get to enjoy and use (half of) the meadow, and avoid a dispute with your neighbour.

If your neighbour has no direct access to the meadow other than through the gate on your property then you could probably just deny them access to that, but of course if their land adjoins the meadow they could just put in their own gate and presumably already have.

[Bannerwag66]

Do we think OP will provide an update on this?

[MinnieMountain]

Ah, but that would be far too sensible @MinecraftMother. Much easier to just be annoyed with the conveyancer.

[MinecraftMother]

@Hingeandbracket

Didn't you just give him his half?

[PurpleButterflyAway]

Happy20
No I mean brought. I deliberately used the incorrect word to try and get on your tits, did it work?

I think I love you

[Hingeandbracket]

@Mildura

The solicitor in the office next door to mine has a mug with:

"Do not confuse your Google search with my law degree"

written on it!!

I didn't need a Google search to know that the conveyancing solicitor sent the entire proceeds of our divorce instigated house sale to me instead of a 50/50 split as clearly instructed. When I called to query the much larger than expected deposit I was assured I didn't know what I was talking about and everything was correct. Cue angry ex - and them having to back down, apologise and compensate ex.

[Hingeandbracket]

@thebillmoon

Firstly, you are not complete idiots.
A little bit naïve maybe.
Your solicitor had insisted you take out an 'indemnity' in case there was a problem in the future and this is it!
Your surveyor (always pay top dollar for one) should have surveyed the property including the land.
This could then have been compared against the land registry.
The solicitor should have checked with the land registry as to what is registered as land that is yours.
!! If your property is not registered with land registry, make sure it is now.
The solicitor should have done this and told you that the meadow could be a problem.
Ask your solicitor to check what is shown on the land registry.
What ever you do, do not go to court about it. You could win (the battle) be in the right and lose (the war) your house in legal costs.
Both of you need to go to your neighbours and talk about this over a cup of tea.
Tell them that this is not going to court or anything, but this needs sorting out by both parties in case either of you wants to sell in the future. repeat that bit. They may well want to downsize at some later date.
It makes it harder to sell a property that is in dispute.
You should not have listened to the seller.
If it's his land it would show on the deeds (not available) or the land registry.
The land registry should show if it is their land.
If it doesn't, then that is where the problems lies.
DO NOT GO TO COURT.
There may be 'a case to answer' as the solicitors call it, but still don't do it.
Say to your neighbours that you do not want to fall out with them, especially as you have only been in the house two minutes and do they have any ideas on how to resolve this?
Best of luck.

Every single bit of advice in this post is utter junk - why do people post so much detail on stuff they clearly know absolutely zero about? It's just weird.

[CharteredBeanCounter]

@Mildura

The solicitor in the office next door to mine has a mug with:

"Do not confuse your Google search with my law degree"

written on it!!

I love that! I may try and get a similar one!
In my job it is google, the man down the pub or Martin Lewis!

[DogBowlSpaghetti]

Sorry

[MinnieMountain]

@DogBowlSpaghetti I think you meant to name check @MinecraftMother. I'm still furloughed unfortunately. I'd LOVE to be on hold to Barclays for hours right now.

[Cantbelievethiss]

Deeds rather ha

[Cantbelievethiss]

I can’t fathom buying a house that I thought had land when that land isn’t on the dress.

[DogBowlSpaghetti]

@MinnieMountain I do commercial now, so no sitting on hold to Barclays. I do the odd resi for friends and family, enough to warrant keeping my CQS accreditation, but a very small proportion of my caseload. It’s definitely a different kind of stress.

[thebillmoon]

You are right. Sorry.

[Mirinska]

Unfortunately some solicitors delegate conveyancing to trainees and junior staff and are too busy to supervise the work. There in lies the source of many errors and oversights.

It makes sense to do your own research so you know what questions to ask a solicitor and if something they send seems wrong or they fail to send you something you know should exist you are informed enough to deal with it.

I and others I know have had serious errors on important paperwork or paperwork not passed on till after deadlines etc. a friends divorce was so badly handled that it went through, despite an agreement on assets at the time, without a property settlement signed by both parties and 10 years later they lost their house.

Law degrees notwithstanding ...Just saying...

[Daisydoesnt]

We did have a few issues we wanted clearing up and the major things were sorted but the meadow just sort of got ignored by everyone and at that point I just felt like I was being difficult.

from page 4 of this thread.

I might be wrong, but it sounds to me that it all got very fraught nearing completion (when doesn't it!) and the OP decided that the meadow issue would probably be OK, so let's just go ahead and exchange. Bad decision.

I know when we bought our house (which has got a large, odd shaped garden with access on two sides) we spent ages checking and re-checking that what we thought we were buying actually tallied with the documents. I can't imagine being in the OPs situation and just taking a punt because you felt that otherwise you were being difficult!!

[MinnieMountain]

@thebillmoon the indemnity policy covers the lack of deeds for the house and garden, not the meadow.

OP you've had some good advice here from those who actually know what they're talking about. If you need any more advice (unlikely), post in Legal.

[Mildura]

The solicitor in the office next door to mine has a mug with:

"Do not confuse your Google search with my law degree"

written on it!!

[thebillmoon]

Firstly, you are not complete idiots.
A little bit naïve maybe.
Your solicitor had insisted you take out an 'indemnity' in case there was a problem in the future and this is it!
Your surveyor (always pay top dollar for one) should have surveyed the property including the land.
This could then have been compared against the land registry.
The solicitor should have checked with the land registry as to what is registered as land that is yours.
!! If your property is not registered with land registry, make sure it is now.
The solicitor should have done this and told you that the meadow could be a problem.
Ask your solicitor to check what is shown on the land registry.
What ever you do, do not go to court about it. You could win (the battle) be in the right and lose (the war) your house in legal costs.
Both of you need to go to your neighbours and talk about this over a cup of tea.
Tell them that this is not going to court or anything, but this needs sorting out by both parties in case either of you wants to sell in the future. repeat that bit. They may well want to downsize at some later date.
It makes it harder to sell a property that is in dispute.
You should not have listened to the seller.
If it's his land it would show on the deeds (not available) or the land registry.
The land registry should show if it is their land.
If it doesn't, then that is where the problems lies.
DO NOT GO TO COURT.
There may be 'a case to answer' as the solicitors call it, but still don't do it.
Say to your neighbours that you do not want to fall out with them, especially as you have only been in the house two minutes and do they have any ideas on how to resolve this?
Best of luck.

[MinecraftMother]

[quote DogBowlSpaghetti]@MinecraftMother

I am a property solicitor too and the property advice on these pages incenses me![/quote]
Dude, don't even go there!! There's one above that mentions 7 years...

Google has a lot to answer for!! Also, i know now a little of how my doctor feels haha.

How are you doing? Busy? I am, literally, on the phone to Barclays - listening to their awful hold music. I swear I'm this close to just driving to Liverpool to sort this out with them face to face. They've been awful throughout - my client is a diamond though and never takes the delays out on me. For that, I remain grateful...

[Thisismytimetoshine]

Really something that should have been sorted out before exchanging contracts but easily missed in all the activities / stress of a house move.
Sorry, but I'm gobsmacked at this Easy to have avoided reading the paperwork connected to the contract in the stress of packing your suitcases??
Do you know the meaning of the word "priorities"?