Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

This is a rather transparent attempt to throw mud at her by trans-rights activists. You'd have to be quite thick to fall for it now.

I think JK Rowling speaks a lot of sense and in a very thoughtful, intelligent and polite manner. Which is more than you can say for many of the people baying for her blood.

Speaking as an Irish person, Seamus in the books always annoyed me- an Irish character who blows shit up? Groundbreaking writing, that. That wizarding world Ireland doesn't appear to be free from Britain galled me too.

Agreed, but the 'Seamus as a mad bastard who repeatedly blows everything up and tries to transfigure something into rum in a transfiguration less' thing is primarily in the films, isn't it? I don't remember a great deal about him in the novels he was an amiable background character whose Irishness wasn't much remarked upon but the offensive stereotyping really got hold in the films. I mean, seriously, 'Let's mark the Irish character as Irish by making him blow up everything possible in lessons AND try to turn something into booze with his magic -- what a jape!' could hardly be more telling about still-current Irish stereotyping in the UK, where we're all alcoholics with IRA leanings.

I do think it would have been absolutely fantastic if one of the main three were black but maybe that’s just me.

This hounding of JKR is a deliberate act by a group of people who are furious at her objection to them appropriating womanhood. How dare she politely ask them not to do that.

@TooOldForSims

I think the issue regarding Lavender Brown is that she was cast as a black actress when she had a minor role in the first two movies.

I'm pretty sure that 'Lavendar Brown' was actually an extra who was given the credit of Lavendar after the film was made.

Lavender Brown's role in the first three movies was a minor, non-speaking role but the role was credited as Lavender nonetheless. There were two black actresses who played Lavender in the first three movies, so it seems more than a little tone deaf to recast as a white actress when the character becomes important.

Just FYI

Few ethnic characters does not usually point to racism.

Might be a reach but I think people pictured Lavender as black because of the Lavender actress in the Matlida movie. These associations happen without realising.

I hate that every time someone is deemed 'problematic', people start spending a lot of time combing through everything from their creative work to their old tweets to find as many sticks as they can to beat them with. If she really is some horrid racist, surely people should have protested her book launches years ago. They should have been marching outside Harry Potter land or whatever that theme park is called. They only care now because she said something they don't like.

The films did have more sterotypes. That foesnt come from the books.

The first film is almost 20 years old, though, isnt it.

And I say that as someone who is bame and Irish. Steroetypes were more acceptable.

However, trans activists trying to use racisim against JKR, smacks of racisim itself.

They didn't give a shit until we became useful to them

Rather like naming a British character González Cooper
But that kind of thing does happen. I once taught a Pascal Doyle. People have dual heritages. Why shouldn’t characters in books?

Lavender Brown's role in the first three movies was a minor, non-speaking role but the role was credited as Lavender nonetheless. There were two black actresses who played Lavender in the first three movies, so it seems more than a little tone deaf to recast as a white actress when the character becomes important.

Perhaps Jessie Cave gave the best audition?

FFS

People will racism in anything if they look hard enough. It’s set in a brisk boarding school, of course the majority of characters are going to be white! I actually thought the HP books were a great way of taking about issues surrounding racism with my children at the time they were reading it. The whole ‘mud blood’ thing helped explain racism to children who grew up in a very white area and who never had to experience it, in a way that was meaningful for them.

Personally, I think JK Rowling did a good thing in terms of being anti racist.

Nagini is of Indian origin it’s the word for snake goddess. The character names are very clever in the books, Lupin for a werewolf, Sirius for the character who transforms in to a dog. Etc

People have been unhappy with jkr for many years, saying people are just coming out the wood to throw mud as she's said something about sex is incorrect, it's just rebringing aall of the old issues up to light. People have had issues with her since she first said dumbledore was gay, people were unhappy as they felt this was a lie she just added in at the end when people questioned if she had any lgbt representation at all in her books.

Cho Chang wasn't the snitch though, was she? It was the friend that she brought with her

The only people I remember blowing things up were Fred and George but it is rather a few years since I read them to my children.

Not in the film

In the film it was Cho.

A lot of Harry Potter “fans” only see the films and have no idea the difference between them and the books

There is some diversity and I feel that people are looking for a fight if they say the majority of the actors were white. It's set in a UK school, the majority of people in the UK ARE white.

Excellently said, @Zaphodsotherhead

the bit that always made me uncomfortable is Hermione finding out about the house-elves

the author does everything to label her concern as ridiculous because these characters want to be slaves, it's all they are fit for, and they can't function outside of an enslaved setting

I do think Hermione was most likely written as white. But the impression that I got was that Rowling was trying to get ahead of the predicted internet meltdown when one of the plays cast Hermione as black - her message was in support of that, more of a "I never said Hermione wasn't black", than "of course she was always black". This was just a couple of years after the online tantrum thrown because Rue from the Hunger Games (who was actually written as black) had a black actress cast in the role, after all.

That said, I do think Rowling included diversity in her own way. I don't think Dubmledore being gay was a retcon, I think he was always meant to be so, and she either didn't feel the need to make it overt on the books, or more likely couldn't do so without torpedoing the series before it began. She makes it clear that several characters are of BAME ethnicity, or non-UK origin, and never specifies the race of most other characters.

I do think white privilege plays a part in it - we tend to assume the characters are the same ethnicity of us unless specified. (Teenage me even assumed Padma and Parvati were white until the first movie came out).

A poster on another thread said that Goblins and House elves were based on well-known pre-existing fairy tale archetypes. I can see how these could be viewed as problematic when looked through modern lenses (although the only two posters to identify themselves as Jewish on the thread both said they found the assumption that "hook-nosed, money-obsessed goblins = Jewish race" much more problematic than Rowling's characterisation of goblins itself) - but at worst I think Rowling was naive, and the writing a product of its time.

The only thing that doesn't get a "pass" is Nagini - I wasn't aware of it myself, but "sexy Asian snake/dragon lady" has been a common racist depiction since the 20s, and having the only Asian female in the series lose her humanity and become the pet of the villain is definitely problematic. I'd like to think this was thoughtless rather than intentional, but even so an apology would be the better route than trying to brazen it out.

That said, I'm willing to listen to the voices of those who are of the races/nationalities/religions concerned and feel they have been done an injustice. It's difficult at the moment to tell where the criticism is coming from - whether its people appropriating these arguments to suit their own agendas, or whether people of the races/religions concerned do consider the writing in HP to be problematic.

Marietta Edgecombe was the snitch. Pretty sure she was white... can’t remember if it was explicit.
You’d have to be a total moron to cite things from a film of a book to the author without checking. For example, Jaws the film bears hardly any resemblance to the book.
The Little Mermaid doesn’t die in the disney film!
Etc.

But that kind of thing does happen. I once taught a Pascal Doyle. People have dual heritages. Why shouldn’t characters in books?

I used to live in Germany where many British soldiers married German women. They had children and those children often had German names alongside very British surnames. It's not at all uncommon.