Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

Dean Thomas was black too, although it wasn't mentioned in the books. JK said he she imagined him as a black Londoner in an interview.

@GrumpyHoonMain

When I read the books to my sibling we imagined Hermione as black, his friends did too. The movies casting a white girl with curly hair actually made him not want to watch the movie because she was his favourite.

But there are passages where she mentions Hermione's skin colour I think sort of in passing (for example saying her face is white with fear or something like that also there is a bit in the second book IIRC where she mentions that Hermione has gone very brown from the sun). I like JKR but she definitely retconned Hermione.

I’ve seen people say little effort has gone into her name, it sounds very close to ‘ching chong’

This would never have crossed my mind in a million years. I find that it would very strange tbh.

Of course if she had included a BAME character, she would have been accused of being patronising, condescending and writing about things she can't possibly comprehend with a whiff of cultural appropriation too.

and so on.

and on.

and on.

If only humans were endowed with some sort of mental capacity to transcend their own physical view and somehow engage with what things might be like in another time or place. I'm sure it would revolutionise the world of storytelling forever. I wonder how it would work ?

I think people are over analysing a kids book that was written some time ago. I’ve always thought compared to most other book series by white authors HP was pretty diverse.

I went to a school that had a lot of Chinese borders, I’m pretty sure we had a Cho, definitely had plenty of Changs. Lots of the girls had names I always assumed were simplified for their time here, Su, Simi, Pru . Looking back I wonder if these were because their full names didn’t translate easily.

I'm so done with all this nonsense

She never really mentions skin colour does she?

@Hangingover

I was talking about characters in my own books, not JKs. I never mention skin colour at all in my writing.

And I don't remember Seamus 'blowing things up' in the books. He did in the films though. It was always Fred and George Weasley who blew things up when they were experimenting for Weasley's Wizard Wheezes.

The books were written in, and set in, a time in the UK when it wasn't particular culturally diverse, and the books are reflective of that fact. Maybe you would like to have a go at Pride and Prejudice as well for not having enough ethnically diverse characters in? As far as I can tell none of the characters were made to conform to any type of racial stereotype so I'm struggling to understand how they are racist?

The sad thing is the books were always very clever in how they portrayed how the magically community viewed non-pureblood witches and wizards (or 'mudbloods'), and how certain 'bad' characters didn't like the mixing of 'purebloods' with 'muggleborns'. There were clear parallels throughout with this and tackling racism in the 'real' world, which I don't believe was accidental. So to say the books were racist is bollocks.

@TooOldForSims

No where is it mentioned that Hermione was white. It was assumed

Funnily enough JKR even said this herself when the black actress was cast as Hermione.

On the other hand a lot of people assumed Lavendar Brown was black when they read the books even though her skin colour is never mentioned. There was certainly a bit of a stir when a white actress was cast as Lavendar in the sixth film .

I think the issue regarding Lavender Brown is that she was cast as a black actress when she had a minor role in the first two movies. Then when she had a larger, more important role as a romantic interest a white actress was cast.

Isn’t Nagini the name of a snake in The Just-So Stories? I always took it that was where she got the name.

Its amazing I me that this all happens to come up now. How come all these people accusing her of racism never mentioned it until she tweeted something they didn’t like about biological sex?

@DisobedientHamster

These 'activists' are just looking for another stick to beat her with. They're angry that she expressed that biological sex exists. They don't like facts.

Yes, this.

She deals with bigotry, using the theme of magic.

Mudbloods, werewolves etc.

Not via colour.

Not sure why Cho Chong, is clumsy at all to be honest. Or the name Patel.

This pathetic. Its an attempt from certain groups to tear her down because she won't back down on Trans issues.

Cho and Chang are both surnames. Korean ones.

Nope. Chang is a common surname in China.

Cho 张 is usually translated as Zhang, but I know a Chinese Cho.

Cho Chang is apparently a name that doesn't make sense linguistically

A more cynical person might think that some folk look for reasons to be offended.

And actually that fucks me off.

Bame people being used, ahsim, in someone else's agenda. Racisim is being discussed alot......so a group of people working to the benefit of (mainly) biological males......all of a sudden giving a shit about racisim.....in the hope it shuts her, a biological female up.

Fucking lovely bunch of people. Use anyone and anything to shut a woman up.

Exactly this:

"The sad thing is the books were always very clever in how they portrayed how the magically community viewed non-pureblood witches and wizards (or 'mudbloods'), and how certain 'bad' characters didn't like the mixing of 'purebloods' with 'muggleborns'. There were clear parallels throughout with this and tackling racism in the 'real' world, which I don't believe was accidental. So to say the books were racist is bollocks."

It does seem like very little effort went into Cho Chang's name. Rather like naming a British character González Cooper. It stands out as disappointing when so much effort clearly went towards giving other characters significant, meaningful names; whereas the only character of East Asian origin got something that only vaguely sounds like a name a girl of Cho's origin would have.

It's not the end of the world, but it is rather clumsy.

I think the issue regarding Lavender Brown is that she was cast as a black actress when she had a minor role in the first two movies.

I'm pretty sure that 'Lavendar Brown' was actually an extra who was given the credit of Lavendar after the film was made.

She had a werewolf (who get discriminated against)

Indeed. I think transspecies people must be the most discriminated-against group on the planet. It's very common for people not to validate their identity.

*Lavender

And I don't remember Seamus 'blowing things up' in the books. He did in the films though.

I was wondering this as well! Not read the books for a fair few years and was wondering if I’d remembered wrong.

Seems people are also finding bits in the films where A LOT of the material wasn’t even JK’s choices or ideas.

Rather like naming a British character González Cooper.

I would suggest it's like naming a British person Shaun Cooper and people who know a tiny bit about the British isles insisting it's spelt Sean.

We're reading the 5th book at home at the moment. It struck me how certain characters (Kingsley Shaklebolt and Lee Jordan) are introduced as 'black' in their description, whereas other characters are described physically without mentioning skin colour (no one is described as white, Asian, Chinese etc.). I put it down to what was acceptable at the time, but if I were writing, I would do one or the other - either I would say everyone's race when I decribed them physically, or I would say no one's.