Can we now finally get rid of 'Do they know it's Christmas'?

[Tokenminority]

This song drives me absolutely up the wall. It's patronising, reductive, and it completely harms efforts towards equality.

I understand the focus on equal opportunities and stopping police brutality, but other narratives, such as the pictures painted in the 'Do they know it's Christmas' song, can be just as harmful.

'Africa' is not a country. You did not go on holiday to 'Africa', similarly to how you wouldn't have sent that you went on holiday to 'Europe' when you in fact went to France.

Of course there are major problems surrounding poverty on the African continent, just as there are in other places, but African countries are not only filled with begging, malnourished children who have never seen a Christmas present.

The picture attached is a photograph of Lagos. If I went on the street and asked random people on which continent that photo was taken, would anyone even consider the possibility that it may have been Africa?

Yep. And patronising with the whole bloody snow thing. I'm not crying for Australians. 😂

Times have changed and although patronising and ignorant in many ways, if was meant well at the time and worked for most of the British population who (dare I say it) were quite ignorant.

They lost me when I heard the story of ?Bob phoning George Michael and telling hi to "jump on concord" and get over there to record. What a waste of money.

"They lost me when I heard the story of ?Bob phoning George Michael and telling hi to "jump on concord" and get over there to record. What a waste of money."

Possibly so but you could argue the ends justified the means. It's not as if he wouldn't have flown home by concord anyway in all probability at a slightly later date and most of us in this country have it in our ability in not to 'waste' money and give it to those less fortunate than us if we choose.

Did anyone on here actually donate money during the concert/buy the record?

It was partially written by the same man, Sir Bob, who made a hit out of a teenager shooting into a playground, killing and injuring several people, children included (I dont like Mondays). How distasteful is that? But for those of around in 1979, hearing that latter song still gives me shivers of pleasure, over 40 years later.

I remember being at college when Do they know its Christmas was released. We heard it for the first time on the bus taking myself and others to a teaching practice. I thought it was crap then, on the first hearing, and the words have always been vilified. You dont need to be young now to look at them with horror. But the tune is catchy, the song is evocative of a time when we were trying to help the Ethiopian famine victims, and a certain generation is always going to remember it fondly.

@MyNameIsArthur doesn’t really take a geography teacher to figure out that there are rivers in Africa does it.
@Alexafrost I’ve been meaning to read that book. I listened to a podcast about the killing of sparrows in China, very interesting.

I never forgave it for keeping Frankie goes to Hollywood off the top spot tbh. Awful tune, awful lyrics, awfully patronising and sung by awful self-congratulatory twunts!

You do know band aid is a sticky plaster don't you and not major surgery.

Alexafrost Ah missed it was tongue in cheek - sometimes difficult to see humour on a post.

@lockitdown

Did anyone on here actually donate money during the concert/buy the record?

I did buy the record eventually but I didn't donate because I was working with an aid agency on the Ethiopian//Sudanese border. I saw the benefits of some of the money. Sadly aid is only a sticking plaster solution, but at the time it certainly saved many lives.

I was a young adult when the song first came out. I can assure the OP that even back in 1984 we weren’t so dumb or naive that we didn’t know that Africa was a continent that encompasses many diverse climates and terrains (including rivers and mountains) and also many, many religions. We made all the same comments she has made about about the ridiculous lyrics. Then we donated anyway because the famine was appalling and people needed help and the crass silly song and the people singing bought it into our living rooms day after day and week after week.

Quite apart from anything else, the song is still raising money for the Band Aid Trust every time it’s played. That’s 36 years of constant fundraising for the developing world from a few silly lyrics that took 5 minutes to write and a day to record. Midge Ure did more to improve the lives of people living in poverty in that 5 minutes than most of us could achieve in a lifetime.

@Alexafrost

"More than slightly offensive take on the bible! Significantly ill informed too."

Lord Satan give me patience. It was a joke.

Do you think she was in a position to refuse God? Isn't that a case of the mother and father of all power imbalances?

And being a virgin birth in human terms doesn't mean the Holy Spirit didn't have his/her/its wicked way with her. After all God moves in mysterious ways. He probably comes in mysterious ways too.

There is a significant and very old theological tradition around Mary's acceptance. It's always been considered quite important that she accepted freely, that it was an example of a freely willed act, unlike most things that most of us do where we have limits on our knowledge and ability to will.

You don't even need to look at it from a perspective of belief, from a purely textual analysis and scholarly understanding of the tradition of interpretation, it's pretty clear that it was seen as not only a choice, but a more authentic choice than most of us ever get to make.

Which kind of makes the whole comment seem like it's coming out of someone's butt.

@Notjustanymum

I never forgave it for keeping Frankie goes to Hollywood off the top spot tbh. Awful tune, awful lyrics, awfully patronising and sung by awful self-congratulatory twunts!

it didn’t just keep FGTH off the top stop - it knocked them off it. They had been no 1 the week before. They didn’t seem too concerned themselves. Holly Johnson featured on the B side of DTKIC and I think I remember him in an interview urging people to buy the Band Aid record instead of The Power of Love.

@Alexafrost

"She was a victim of rape? Where’s the evidence for that, then?"

The Bible. God sent down angel to tell her he was knocking Mary up whether she liked it or not.

Not in any bible I’ve ever read.

"There is a significant and very old theological tradition around Mary's acceptance. It's always been considered quite important that she accepted freely, that it was an example of a freely willed act, unlike most things that most of us do where we have limits on our knowledge and ability to will.

You don't even need to look at it from a perspective of belief, from a purely textual analysis and scholarly understanding of the tradition of interpretation, it's pretty clear that it was seen as not only a choice, but a more authentic choice than most of us ever get to make.

Which kind of makes the whole comment seem like it's coming out of someone's butt."

Of course there is theological tradition that Mary gave a big enthusiastic yes to being God's surrogate. If there wasn't it would make God look fairly dodgy wouldn't it? A bit of a mixed blessing he gave her there to put it mildly.

The point is not taking the text and later theological traditions at face value but reading between the lines, outside of the patriarchal tradition in the Bible to look at possible power dynamics which would have made it difficult for a young women to say no to God's great offer at that time.

That's a perfectly reasonable exercise in literary deconstruction or whatever term the post modernists use.

However, it was just a silly joke so no need to get personally offensive or your knickers in a twist about it.

‘Feed 6 million starving Africans and what’ll happen? Give it a generation and you’ve got 18 million starving Africans’

I think some on here don’t realise this was a long standing viewpoint in the U.K. “White saviours” were idealist counter culture rather than virtue signalling.
I remember Africa becoming a very popular cause in 1980’s . The anti apartheid movement was going strong and embraced in popular culture. The new thinking was very much that colonialism had had its day. The song might be dated but the context was different

Do They Know It's Christmas?
Band Aid
Written - Midge Ure & Bob Geldof
Keyboard - Midge Ure
Programmer - Midge Ure
Bass - John Taylor
Guitar - Andy Taylor
Drums - Phil Collins
Recorded at Sarm West Studios, London - 25 November 1984
Release Date - 29 November 1984
Label - Columbia Records & Phonogram Inc.

[Paul Young]
It's Christmas time
There's no need to be afraid
At Christmas time
We let in light and we banish shade

[Boy George]
And in our world of plenty
We can spread a smile of joy
Throw your arms around the world
At Christmas time

[George Michael]
But say a prayer
Pray for the other ones
At Christmas time it's hard
But when you're having fun

[Simon LeBon (Duran Duran)]
There's a world outside your window
And it's a world of dread and fear

[Sting]
Where the only water flowing
Is the bitter sting of tears

[Bono & Sting]
And the Christmas bells that ring there
Are the clanging chimes of doom

[Bono]
Well tonight thank God it's them
Instead of you

[Boy George & Others]
And there won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time
The greatest gift they'll get this year is life (Oooh)
Where nothing ever grows, no rain or rivers flow
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

[Marilyn & Glenn Gregory]
Here's to you

[Paul Young]
Raise a glass for everyone

[Marilyn & Glenn Gregory]
Here's to them

[Paul Young, Marilyn & Glenn Gregory]
Underneath that burning sun
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

[Chorus: All]
Feed the world
Feed the world
Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

Bit shocked that the OP was written in June!

Yeah, technically I know you’re right, but the song has such sentimental value. I remember dancing about to this as a child.

You’re not going to stop me listening to Fairytale of New York either.

@Alexafrost

"There is a significant and very old theological tradition around Mary's acceptance. It's always been considered quite important that she accepted freely, that it was an example of a freely willed act, unlike most things that most of us do where we have limits on our knowledge and ability to will.

You don't even need to look at it from a perspective of belief, from a purely textual analysis and scholarly understanding of the tradition of interpretation, it's pretty clear that it was seen as not only a choice, but a more authentic choice than most of us ever get to make.

Which kind of makes the whole comment seem like it's coming out of someone's butt."

Of course there is theological tradition that Mary gave a big enthusiastic yes to being God's surrogate. If there wasn't it would make God look fairly dodgy wouldn't it? A bit of a mixed blessing he gave her there to put it mildly.

The point is not taking the text and later theological traditions at face value but reading between the lines, outside of the patriarchal tradition in the Bible to look at possible power dynamics which would have made it difficult for a young women to say no to God's great offer at that time.

That's a perfectly reasonable exercise in literary deconstruction or whatever term the post modernists use.

However, it was just a silly joke so no need to get personally offensive or your knickers in a twist about it.

Meh, either the text is based on something, or it's just a text and what is there is what it says.

What you are calling reading outside the lines is just people inserting what they want it to say for their own purposes. An increasingly common approach at universities, but really just navel-gazing bollocks by people too lame to write their own books.

I appreciate you may have thought it was a joke but it's been said quite seriously by others.

It's an interesting song because there's no real structure to it, or rather the structure is quite unusual. It doesn't follow any of the standard pop song structure such as: Intro / Double verse / Bridge / Chorus / Single Verse / Bridge / Double Chorus / Middle Eight / Bridge / Double Chorus / Outro

Instead it is: Into / Verse / loads more verses / Middle Eight / Chorus repeat to fade

@AlecTrevelyan006

It's an interesting song because there's no real structure to it, or rather the structure is quite unusual. It doesn't follow any of the standard pop song structure such as: Intro / Double verse / Bridge / Chorus / Single Verse / Bridge / Double Chorus / Middle Eight / Bridge / Double Chorus / Outro

Instead it is: Into / Verse / loads more verses / Middle Eight / Chorus repeat to fade

I think it was designed to give a few lines to everyone and make a snazzy video.

"Meh, either the text is based on something, or it's just a text and what is there is what it says.

What you are calling reading outside the lines is just people inserting what they want it to say for their own purposes. An increasingly common approach at universities, but really just navel-gazing bollocks by people too lame to write their own books.

I appreciate you may have thought it was a joke but it's been said quite seriously by others."

Text is never just text and there are a world of literary theories to analyse things pretty much any way you choose. Blake pointed out that Milton is of the devil's party and Dracula although theologically framed as a Christian story shows rather too much fondness for wicked godless women.

Yours is an extremely narrow view and one dominated by faith I suspect. Remove the faith and it's just a bunch of stories, myths and folk tales which can certainly be interpreted in a number of ways. After all, it's not as if theologians haven't been picking and choosing and interpreting the Bible in all sort of strange ways down the centuries. The Christian faith is hardly a united one and events in the Bible are being told from a particular historical perspective which easily allows for reinterpretation from a later perspective.

I don't have much patience for a lot of post modern style approaches to literature myself but I wouldn't go so far as to call them universally bollocks. Ultimately art is so subjective that it's impossible to be too insistent that any one reading is the correct one to the exclusion of all else. Even the word of God is open to various interpretations.

When Michael Burke reported scenes of staring children during the Ethiopian famine of the 80's, (back when there were only 4 TV channels) we had never seen such graphic images of suffering. The concert & song were a response to that & the nation was hugely moved.

Yes it's dated.
Everything dates.
It was full of super mega stars of their day.
A world of young people were totally captivated by the concert on TV.
It reminds some of us of our youth.
150million US dollars were raised.
This was lots of money back in the day.
It was patronising yes but very well intended. What are today's stars doing to help anyone?
But maybe you should try to see things in their historical context?
There are more harmful influences right now.

I really don't think the song is that bad at all. Some people seem to be taking it very literally and not understanding the context. For "Africa" try inserting "refugee camp in Ethiopia" (which obviously doesn't scan as well) and think of those starving children with flies all over them in those camps.
This song was written to save those people. It was not written to raise funds for the many other African people elsewhere who were perfectly fine at the time.
To go on about whether Africans are Christians is to spectacularly miss the point. Do you think you would "know it was Christmas" if you had lost everything, not eaten properly for weeks, and were watching your children dying before your eyes?

@Alexafrost

"Meh, either the text is based on something, or it's just a text and what is there is what it says.

What you are calling reading outside the lines is just people inserting what they want it to say for their own purposes. An increasingly common approach at universities, but really just navel-gazing bollocks by people too lame to write their own books.

I appreciate you may have thought it was a joke but it's been said quite seriously by others."

Text is never just text and there are a world of literary theories to analyse things pretty much any way you choose. Blake pointed out that Milton is of the devil's party and Dracula although theologically framed as a Christian story shows rather too much fondness for wicked godless women.

Yours is an extremely narrow view and one dominated by faith I suspect. Remove the faith and it's just a bunch of stories, myths and folk tales which can certainly be interpreted in a number of ways. After all, it's not as if theologians haven't been picking and choosing and interpreting the Bible in all sort of strange ways down the centuries. The Christian faith is hardly a united one and events in the Bible are being told from a particular historical perspective which easily allows for reinterpretation from a later perspective.

I don't have much patience for a lot of post modern style approaches to literature myself but I wouldn't go so far as to call them universally bollocks. Ultimately art is so subjective that it's impossible to be too insistent that any one reading is the correct one to the exclusion of all else. Even the word of God is open to various interpretations.

Yes, there are a wealth of literary theories, many of which are all about what the reader would like to get out of the text.

I have no problem with looking at texts in the context of where they came from, and indeed if you want to understand them I think that's necessary. (As we can see with this discussion of what is a rather poor song which it seems some younger people struggle with due to lack of context.) I also have no trouble looking at how a text has been handled in light of it's use in a tradition.

Nor do I have an issue with multiple meanings in a text - in fact I would say our current age is not actually very good at dealing with the fact that this was once considered normal, and that non-literal meanings were more important than the literal ones.

But assertions that a text means something quite outside of what it says, or what it's context would suggest, in the fashion you've suggested, is basically a kind of mental masturbation. It can give you a nice little topic for a thesis, or bolster a viewpoint you already want to hold, or be used to make a cheap joke of something. All of which are self-serving.